Diving Into Trad Bowhunting. No more suction cup arrows. Wisdom and Stories appreciated.

Tire_Iron

FNG
Joined
Feb 6, 2023
Messages
16
Hello all,
This is my first post on rokslide. I originally just joined to get to the classifieds, but after reading a bunch of threads, I am excited to learn from such a large community of hunters.
Here's the dream:
I have been whitetail hunting with a compound bow for years in Northwestern WI. The last few years have been tough to get out bowhunting because of school, but I am getting the itch to be more committed next fall.

I kicked around the idea of traditional bowhunting since high school, but never got around to it. Naturally, with a number of years for the idea to slip in and out of my mind, I got it into my head that I want to build the bow myself too.

Traditional archery has always seemed cool to me, ever since my dad gave a bow with suction cup arrows as a young boy. In hindsight, this was probably long before I was old enough to wield that kind of power. I don't remember this, but apparently I smoked him in the forehead from the top of the stairs as he walked by. When asked what I was doing, I said "I'm in my deer stand, Dad. I'm hunting deer."

A year ago, I cut some ironwood(eastern hophornbeam) logs from around the family hunting cabin. Last spring, I built a shave horse. This fall, I finally got around to splitting and carving down a stave. I still have to tiller and finish. With my intermittent progress, I hope to finish my first bow, learn to shoot it, build a new bow that works well enough to hunt, and go kill a buck next fall. Someday, I think it would be awesome to take an elk in the backcountry with a selfbow. If I don't do that, at least with a compound.

Attached is a picture of my stave so far. Simple flatbow design. 1.75" wide limbs at the widest. I plan to reinforce the handle section and cut an arrow shelf. Might recurve the limb tips... we will see once I get to tillering.

Would anyone be willing to share stories and/or lessons about when you were first getting into traditional bowhunting, bowbuilding, graduating from suction cups to broadheads, etc?
 

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nevadabugle

WKR
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Mar 8, 2013
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678
Good luck on your journey! No matter what path you take, embrace the process and you will fall in love with it. Focus on the what, not the how.

Cheers!
 

smoke

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Jun 3, 2015
Messages
176
Primitive bows are great fun - fun to make, shoot and hunt with! I made my first one about 15 years ago. I thought I was a natural bowyer - bow shot really well. About the 50th arrow, the top limb snapped at full draw, flew back and smacked me right in the face! Hurt like heck but nothing broken other than that limb . . . served me right for being cocky! You might want to consider backing the first few bows you make . . . just in case!

I made 2 bows this winter of osage and have one more on the drawing board. I find that I can shoot a production bow better than a selfbow but not a lot better. To help you learn proper shooting form, you might consider buying a used recurve or longbow and taking classes. I'm an old guy and that option didn't exist when I started but I would certainly do it if I were starting today. Best of luck and keep us informed on your progress!
 

Cng

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Feb 9, 2019
Messages
238
Location
KY
Congrats and good luck! If you're serious about this, you're probably going to make a few bows before you get one that you're comfortable hunting with, so start looking for staves now.

I'm on a similar journey as you. I've been bowhunting for 20 years now, but I started shooting trad four or five years ago, and I started making my first hickory selfbow about three years ago. I rushed it and it turned out terrible. Unshootable actually. I put a bad hinge in it, but I still tried to finish it out, and I ended up cracking it. Seems like I always have to massively screw up before I can succeed at all...

The following winter, I got an osage stave and, with the help of some experienced friends, finished a bow that turned out pretty good. I shot with it all summer long in preparation for the season, only to sail an arrow overtop of a nice buck at about 8 yards. (I hadn't practiced with it out of a treestand at all.🤦‍♂️) The next spring it cracked at a pin knot that was probably too near the edge, and with a toddler at home, I just didn't have the time to complete another one to hunt with this fall. But now I'm started on bows #3 and #4. I hope to finish at least one of them by the summer so I can start practicing with it (including from a treestand) for this fall.

Post some pictures of your progress as you go. I'd love to see how it comes out.
 
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Tire_Iron

FNG
Joined
Feb 6, 2023
Messages
16
Thanks for the encouragement, all of you!

I fully plan on this first one being OK at best. Either way this will hopefully be the first of many bow I build. I already have a couple extra logs I cut awhile back, and plan to find more stave material when I can get up north again.
Thank you for the reminder about breaking at pin knots. There are a couple spots where I got lazy and will need to work around them better before I tiller.

It is exciting hearing from others who have done this! I don't think I've ever actually communicated with anyone who hunts with a selfbow until now.

Ill be sure to add some pictures here as I go along.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2017
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If the first one doesn't break, there's no reason you can't hunt with that. Nothing wrong with building a second, just saying the first one will hunt too unless it's really light draw weight (which would actually be a good idea to help you figure out form).

Getting coaching is time/money extremely well spent. This is one resource you can use to find somebody: https://www.usarchery.org/coaches/find-a-coach

You can get great input from really experienced selfbow builders on reddit (r/bowyer) or the Primitive Archer forums by posting photos as you go through the tillering process. Make sure you don't pull the bow any further than the intended finish draw weight and don't pull past the point where you see a tillering problem.

At some point make sure you practice real hunting shots. By that I mean if you'll hunt from an elevated stand (or in steep terrain), practice shooting from an elevated position. Practice sitting, kneeling, standing. Practice with your feet planted at a less than ideal angle to the target. Most of your reps can probably be in an ideal standing position, but you gotta know how those less ideal positions affect your ability to hit what you're aiming at so you can scale your max range as needed.
 

TX_Diver

WKR
Joined
May 27, 2019
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2,203
Check out Solid Archery Mechanics and keep an eye on RMS Gear social media as Tom does some clinics in Wisconsin occasionally in Spring.
 

jlw0142

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Feb 6, 2023
Messages
161
That's awesome! I am just getting to a point where I'm starting to feel like a skilled compound bowhunter, and I am still so anal about every tiny aspect of my bow, so I can't even imagine going traditional right now. Maybe one day, but props to you and good luck!
 

Beendare

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Wow, good luck.

Just the fact you will have to string and unstring after every session is enough for me to tap out on that.

Trad didn’t click for me until I developed good alignment and consistent form…then it was like, “ OK, I can kill stuff with this thing”

I had been flip flopping between bows, 54# 62”, longbow, and the 47# ILF recurve I have done most hunting with in the last couple years. Its been a Bowhunting revelation for me with that bow.
I shot 80# compounds for decades…and that wimpy recurve had no problem blowing arrows through critters effortlessly…..inc an 800# moose.

It was a beautiful thing to stalk on that moose….and at about 30y….the arrow hit dead center, went in like a hot knife through butter and I could see it bouncing along the ground past that moose…… it hardly slowed down. Trad bows can be very effective.
 
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oldgoat

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If you haven't already, check out Clay Hayes on YouTube, that's about all the self-bow wisdom I can pass on to you. As mentioned, coaching pays great dividends, and I don't care how heavy of compound you shot, you are going to want to start out with a lot lot lot lighter bow and I feel like it would be a very good idea to buy a 35# cheap bow like the sage or black hunter etc to learn on, get your form dialed in and develop some muscle memory!
 
Joined
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Messages
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West-central MN
Just the fact you will have to string and unstring after every session is enough for me to tap out on that.

Push/pull method on a longbow is so fast and easy I don't think it's really a factor. Right now my main bow is a glass lam ASL so I don't unstring but wouldn't have a problem unstringing if I had to.
 
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Tire_Iron

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Joined
Feb 6, 2023
Messages
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Thanks! Ill look into what opportunities there might be for lessons in my area!

As far as the stringing/unstringing, risk of bow taking a set, etc, I know I appreciate the lower maintenance nature of my compound bow, and I really enjoy shooting it, but I think there is a certain beauty to the fiddling and variabability of traditional archery. Assuming proper form and technique, I like the idea that successful shooting requires tuning myself more than the equipment. Compound shooting feels to me to have more emphasiss on tuning of equipment.

As far as resources go, I already have clay hayes book on selbowyery as well as a copy of the bowyer's bible. Clay Hayes' book is a great practical instruction to get a bow built well. The bowyer's bible contains much more detail and really neat information to know what else is possible.

Cng, Thanks for the link to the bowyer's rule. I will print it out. That looks like a really helpful tool to save a lot of messing around on layout and rough carving especially.
 
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Tire_Iron

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Feb 6, 2023
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Beendare,
Congrats on the moose hunt! That is awesome!
How was your arrow set up to penetrate like that? (shaft material, fletchings, broadhead, weight, etc)
 

Beendare

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Push/pull method on a longbow is so fast and easy I don't think it's really a factor. Right now my main bow is a glass lam ASL so I don't unstring but wouldn't have a problem unstringing if I had to.

Those all wood bows will take a set if you keep them strung- thats a fact. They can lose a significant amount of performance.

its a non issue with fiberglass/ carbon lam bows…i had one I kept strung for years.
——
TI,
I have a long draw, that helps. 47# Dryad ILF riser, long Uukha limbs ( older 100% carbon) , 47# at my DL, 553g 340 Beman Centershot carbons cut 31 3/8”, 50g insert, 2 blade GJ 145g head, 4” feathers.

Fwiw, I snuck in and shot that moose feeding right at dark. The first arrow a complete pass thru. The moose spun around, then stood there…so I shot again with that arrow sticking 30” out of the off side hung up on fletching. The moose took about 4 steps, and fell into a shallow ( but freezing cold) creek.

I do like an arrow on the heavier side for bowhunting. i’m shooting a new setup, Junxing and Stalker 19”riser with Uukha Seleghas at about 50-52#, with a 480g arrow and its a flatter shooting winner.

Point is;
A 40-45# trad bow with a 10-12gpp arrow and a 2 blade is a dang effective killer. No need to pull a heavier bow you don’t shoot as well, IMO.
.(edited to add arrow specs)
 
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cck311

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Apr 23, 2020
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Those all wood bows will take a set if you keep them strung- thats a fact. They can lose a significant amount of performance.

its a non issue with fiberglass/ carbon lam bows…i had one I kept strung for years.
——
TI,
I have a long draw, that helps. 47# Dryad ILF riser, long Uukha limbs ( older 100% carbon) , 47# at my DL, 553g 340’s, 2 blade head.

Fwiw, I snuck in and shot that moose feeding right at dark. The first arrow a complete pass thru. The moose spun around, then stood there…so I shot again with that arrow sticking 30” out of the off side hung up on fletching. The moose took about 4 steps, and fell into a shallow ( but freezing cold) creek.

I do like an arrow on the heavier side for bowhunting. i’m shooting a new setup, Junxing and Stalker 19”riser with Uukha Seleghas at about 50-52#, with a 480g arrow and its a flatter shooting winner.

Point is;
A 40-45# trad bow with a 10-12gpp arrow and a 2 blade is a dang effective killer. No need to pull a heavier bow you don’t shoot as well, IMO.
.
I will be hunting deer and elk with a 47# Martin Hunter this year. You mention having a long draw. At 27 inches I don't have that luxury but I don't think I will have any issues shooting a nicely tuned 485 grain gold tip trad with a razor sharp 2 blade magnus stinger up front. The bow I really like to shoot is an old Shakespeare Tioga that pulls around 41 pounds at my draw length. I trust it for deer, but a 41 pound at 27 inch bow has me a little apprehensive about elk. I know on a close broadside shot it would PROBABLY work, but I have nagging doubts in my mind.
 

Beendare

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I will be hunting deer and elk with a 47# Martin Hunter this year. You mention having a long draw. At 27 inches I don't have that luxury but I don't think I will have any issues shooting a nicely tuned 485 grain gold tip trad with a razor sharp 2 blade magnus stinger up front. The bow I really like to shoot is an old Shakespeare Tioga that pulls around 41 pounds at my draw length. I trust it for deer, but a 41 pound at 27 inch bow has me a little apprehensive about elk. I know on a close broadside shot it would PROBABLY work, but I have nagging doubts in my mind.
Yeah, for elk thats a little light 41#

Thats where a heavier arrow can help you milk a little bit more performance out of that light bow. I think 41# with a 550g plus arrow would do the trick with strict shot parameters.

And thats👆🏼Really what all bowhunting boils down to….shot parameters. When I was shooting my 70# compound with stiff 500g Axis 300 or 260’s and a strong 2 blade…my shot selection was expanded as I knew I could pound that arrow through a lot of animal to get through the vitals. Plus, it was a more pinpoint accurate.

I have been pleasantly surprised with the performance of my relatively weak ( compared to a compound) Trad setups- a bit surprised really….but I do focus on taking solid shots and staying away from big bones.

So much BS noise on the internet….. Its amazing what a good flying arrow with a very efficient BH can do.
 
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Cng

Lil-Rokslider
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Feb 9, 2019
Messages
238
Location
KY
How’s it coming, @Tire_Iron ?

I got one of my Osage staves shaped up and decided to try heat bending some recurves into the tips. I’m pretty sure I overheated one of them and ruined it. 🤦‍♂️ Won’t know for sure until I get the limbs thinned out a little and start tillering…
 
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Tire_Iron

FNG
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Feb 6, 2023
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I haven't had much free time to work on the bow recently, but I am getting to it! I've been tinkering with my shave horse a bit and working on some other projects.
However, I did just get some 500 spine gold tip shafts and some components in the mail so I will be ready to put some arrows together when the time comes.
I would like to put some recurve into my bow as well, but I am worried about doing the same. I tend to have a heavy hand when it comes to applying things like heat, torque, paint, sanding, etc.

This is all encouraging. Maybe this first bow will take deer after all, as long as it turns out.
 

Beendare

WKR
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Thats doing it the hard way for sure…..carving your own bow From a stave.

I do know that the all wood bows from a stave are more delicate than fiberglass or carbon lam bows. One of the guys at our archery club shoots them…and they don’t usually last him more than 2 seasons. Keep it sealed…..and Have a backup.

My lam bows and all Carbon Uukha limb bows are anything but delicate.
 
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