Discussion on new hunting apparel brand ideas

[bivouaclarry]

It's certainly fun to ideate about a new line of hunting clothes. Everybody has an opinion on what they like best.

If you are serious, make sure you have access to capital. SBA loans are unobtanium for a new business with no track record. A complete business plan with 3 - 5 years of financial projections will be the minimum required to be considered for venture capital or loans. You should also consider your appetite for giving up equity in exchange for money. Loss of majority share can result in you being forced out.

 

[skaldugwas]

There is a tremendously huge gaping hole for technical/functional clothing in the upland market. What little there is has zero thought put into it.
Most uplanders still think waxed cotton is the pinnacle of garment technology. Pm if you want to talk upland clithing. I have a ton of ideas and have been shredding my sitka and firstlite stuff on the briars for years chasing chukar and quail.

 

[SoCalHunter]

I see multiple hunters here speaking about upland-specific apparel. I totally feel ya on this one. Added to my list.

I have access to capital from overseas as well is the USA. When capital needs get difficult is during growth which require inventory. I have suppliers that will extend credit, fortunately. It's more about finding a sweet spot of unfulfilled-needs/price/biz-model.

I feel I have what most people who, at the start, do not....world class supply available from anywhere. Made in USA or Made offshore.

Thanks again. If I do this I will give discount codes to those who help me with ideas, advice etc.

 

[mj23polaris]

Give me this but in a earth tone or camo pattern haha, I have what I believe is a older model of this from a few years ago and it's bomb proof. Love it, the outer shell with the pit zips is awesome for carrying a pack in rain/snow/wind it's totally water proof. Then when low activity put the puffy inside the outer shell zip it together and Bam a super warm wind and water resistant coat.

https://www.columbia.com/mens-wild-card-interchange-jacket-1737501.html

I understand I can buy a puffy and rain jacket separate from kuiu, FL, Sitka, kryptek, etc and have the same setup just with no zipping the 2 together. but at the price point of $300 for the Columbia I feel like your getting alot for your money.

More engineered socks? I like what kuiu has done and I just got a email back from them about availability of their ultra merino crew socks. I like the idea of adding more material to important contact areas and wear areas. Then leaving it thinner in other areas. Seems like that idea could be built on with making both a winter and summer sock with the same principal.

My .02

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[P Carter]

Maybe borrow some from the ultra running world?

Here are some advancement from that realm:

-No-bounce pockets for gels and water bottles integrated into waistbands and other “structural” components of garments for minimal bounce
-Larger waistbands that fit better for no bounce
-Really fast drying materials
-Packs that tie the line between shirts and packs. Stretchy, body contouring with integrated no-bounce pockets and, most importantly, pockets on the front of straps. Sitka did similar last year I believe.
-Basically melding clothing and carrying capacity from both directions...clothing more towards carrying and carrying more towards clothing

 

[woodson]

Fascinating thread, and based on your 35+ years of expertise, you probably have a leg up on many similar upstarts/competitors.

That said, you know that in a low margin business it is all about market share. IMO, the best suggestion in all of these posts is to make crossover gear that doesn't compromise on hunting features.

First Lite has done this well, in that a lot of people enter into their product line when they buy a camo hunting jacket (think Uncompahgre) or lightweight merino fleece (Chama hoody) for hunting, and then end up wearing them on every hiking trip, fishing trips, camping, for yard work, etc, and buy them in earth tones and neutral colors. Patagonia has mastered this too, in that some Patagonia pieces are so versatile/pragmatic (and tough) that they essentially become uniforms for people.

Upland gear is great, but it is a very niche customer base. My advice would be to build gear that hunters can't live without, and non-hunters can't help but notice how awesome it looks and works, so that they become a larger and larger portion of your customer base. If I'm in venture capital, that is a story I can get behind.

Also, the suggestion above about borrowing from the ultra-running world and building versatile storage into your apparel is an under appreciated feature that is lacking in most outdoor gear.

 

[SoCalHunter]

There is a difference between reasonable margins based on actual cost of manufacturing and what the big D2C hunting apparel companies are charging.

One thing I firmly believe in is building a business D2C and not B2B using retailers. Middle-merchants always add to consumer cost and also seriously dilute the highly valuable sales and customer data. This data is used to make more focused, desired and timely products to those who actually consume the product.

If I can manufacture a great hunting pant for $30.00, 100% complete to my shipping facility , I do not need to sell it for $140 to make a solid profit. But if I use a retailer I need to sell to them at $57.00 for instance, so they can sell it at $140.00

I would rather sell that pant to customers at $79.00 direct only and give hunters a better deal.

Trust me, I can make great hunting pants for $28-$45 my total cost for 3 seasons. Made in Vietnam, most likely, but incredible sewing quality (much better than USA for tricky single-needle sewing) and the outstanding fabrics from high-end mills.

 

[fngTony]

Do you have any ideas to work around supply chain woes? People get impatient with delays or consistently low stock.

 

[DougP]

I’d start with a small niche (for example upland that others have suggested). It sounds like you have expertise around advanced materials and production capabilities. Exploit those advantages and make a super premium version of something and own the niche market. You can always expand it from there.

Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t notice you mention any expertise in branding and distribution. If you want “mass market,” that’s what you need to do well. I’m sure it’s doable, but you would want to find a strong partner that has that skill set.

You don’t see a lot of high quality, low price products in any industry. You know why? Because to achieve that and not go out of business you have to be great at everything and that’s extremely rare for a company. I’d be willing to bet it’s downright impossible for a brand new company.

Disclaimer- I don’t have any experience in the retail industry. These are just some general thoughts based on my experience in other fields. Good luck to you! I’ve worked at a few startups. It can be a wild rollercoaster ride!

 

[SoCalHunter]

Do you have any ideas to work around supply chain woes? People get impatient with delays or consistently low stock.

I am working on that. The main issue with this is fabric, not sewing. I am considering a counter of availability on the website which will give customers full insight into what we ordered and what is left at all times. I am big on transparency.

 

[Black-tailed]

Check out some of the outdoor apparel and hunting brands from Scandinavia for inspiration. Scandinavian’s make great, practical and durable outdoor gear.


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[timberbuck]

I think to succeed is going to be tough in the hunting/outdoor clothing market.

Its over saturated at this point IMO and its not that current designs available are not sufficient for the tasks at hand.

For example take a look at Browning with even their well know branding. They have brought some very good hunting line clothing products to the market a couple of times in the last decade and basically failed with them. The most recent being the Hell's Canyon Speed line. The prices were average or below Sitka or Kuiu and quality was just as good.

I hate to say it but I personally feel it would be a bad investment and business decision to try to introduce another clothing line at this point.

Often times more market competition can bring about lower prices but it seems not to be the case here . This is still a small niche market.

The great success of recent companies like KUIU or Vortex Optics is going to be hard to match in the future.

The brand recognition and reputation of companies like Sitka and Swarovski for example are deeply ingrained and very hard to displace.

 

[ianpadron]

- pant/belt combo that doesn't destroy your hips with a pack on. I like suspenders but not as much as a belt. Hunting pants with an integrated belt that doesnt ride up and siliconized waist band That doesnt fall down would be BADASS. No more rubbing.

- made in USA. I've heard that sewing skills are generally better in SE Asia, but man would I love to support an American company with American workers at ALL LEVELS.

- solids only. A new hunting apparel company pops up every year with a proprietary pattern and subpar fabrics. More and more guys hunt in solids and I see a tremendous opportunity to capture those consumers. Dry Earth, Olive Drab, Slate Grey. Those colors work while scouting, hiking, fishing, around town, and absolutely disappear while hunting.

- more access to sizing recommendations. I have failed to pull the trigger on countless pieces because I couldnt get a reliable gauge on sizing. Kifaru made a video for their LPP where like 8 different dudes had jackets on in different sizes to illustrate the fit of their piece. They gave their height and weight, and you could actually see the garment on them. Way easier than getting out a measuring tape, or buying and then returning pieces.

- climashield APEX jacket with a breathable/waterproof face fabric. This in my opinion would become the greatest foul weather jacket in existence. PNW dudes would love you forever. I wish i had an E-Vent/OutDry shell with a Climashield Apex liner all the time in the late season.

I daydream a lot about gear upgrade ideas and those are just a few that come up relatively often.

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[SoCalHunter]

- pant/belt combo that doesn't destroy your hips with a pack on. I like suspenders but not as much as a belt. Hunting pants with an integrated belt that doesnt ride up and siliconized waist band That doesnt fall down would be BADASS. No more rubbing.

- made in USA. I've heard that sewing skills are generally better in SE Asia, but man would I love to support an American company with American workers at ALL LEVELS.

- solids only. A new hunting apparel company pops up every year with a proprietary pattern and subpar fabrics. More and more guys hunt in solids and I see a tremendous opportunity to capture those consumers. Dry Earth, Olive Drab, Slate Grey. Those colors work while scouting, hiking, fishing, around town, and absolutely disappear while hunting.

- more access to sizing recommendations. I have failed to pull the trigger on countless pieces because I couldnt get a reliable gauge on sizing. Kifaru made a video for their LPP where like 8 different dudes had jackets on in different sizes to illustrate the fit of their piece. They gave their height and weight, and you could actually see the garment on them. Way easier than getting out a measuring tape, or buying and then returning pieces.

- climashield APEX jacket with a breathable/waterproof face fabric. This in my opinion would become the greatest foul weather jacket in existence. PNW dudes would love you forever. I wish i had an E-Vent/OutDry shell with a Climashield Apex liner all the time in the late season.

I daydream a lot about gear upgrade ideas and those are just a few that come up relatively often.

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Great thoughts and idea.

Made in USA - Well, it's actually the easiest way to start. Closer to home is easier when it comes to coordination, samples and solving problems. Also, the lead times are shorter and MOQ is smaller in many factories. The cost is MUCH higher so we are definitely talking about another level. Build Kifaru-level apparel and it's an option.

I hate proprietary camo. The reason it exists is to get you to rid yourself of your 2 year old pattern and buy the brand new one. It will not help you harvest ONE extra animal you would not have anyway. If I do camo garments you will not pay a nickel more for them other than printing costs. Period.

Totally feel you on proper sizing. Fit will be just as much of a priority as expensive sportswear. It must be right every time and comfortable in every way.

There are crazy good fabrics coming along at record speed these days. Europe, Taiwan and Japan are all doing well in this area.

What price would hardcore hunters pay for a MADE IN USA, highest level hunting pant? Made in Vietnam is $150 for early season quality and $200+ for colder seasons. Is there really room to go up? Hardcore mountain hunters will beat any pant do death so indestructibility is a relative thing and even though I would go total bombproof, there are tech limits.

Anyway, thank you for the great thoughts.

 

[elkyinzer]

Peformance apparel for Eastern hunters. Whitetail and upland. Stuff that isn't torn to shreds with one hike through a jagger patch.

Heck if we're talking brands here, make something that I am going to wear every day. Branded, but subtle enough I can wear to business casual work. You don't have to reinvent the wheel, a good balance of options.

Better sizing. First Lite badly needs tall sizing. It's their biggest downfall.

Definitely offer solids. Camo is meh. I am all about ASAT but camo is about last on my list of considerations. My camo stuff lasts 15 years. My solids I wear out in a few years. You do the math there which is going to be better for the bottom line.

I would look to compete on price point and brand image more with companies along the lines of Patagonia, North Face, OR, etc. than the hunting companies. But for hunters. And made in the USA is always a plus, but hard to get people to pay for.

 

[Michiganhunter]

I am an average blue collar worker and I can’t spend $220 on pants $400 on an outer shell etc.etc.. if I buy something it has to be multi-use. For me that means solid colors earth toned. No flourecent stitching no big gaudy emblems. So far I own a pair of grey attack pants because those were the only ones available with hip vents and I can pretty much wear them anywhere. I’m not big on wearing Camo around town. But I also don’t want to prematurely wear out my gear just to wear it but for the high cost that we pay I feel like I need to get my monies worth. I hope that makes sense.

I don’t understand why stuff made in China costs so much? I think my Eddie Bauer guide pants are about the best deal when I can get them half off but they don’t have all the features I want. Make sure there are enough belt loops and they are placed correctly to carry a side arm in or outside of the pants. Maybe have inside pockets on the jacket/vests for conceal carry also. With today’s sub compact pistols it don’t have to be an oversized pocket. I hope that makes sense I’m having a hard time explaining myself on my phone

 

[NDGuy]

Make a similar Prana Zion pant, with the waistband belt, I hate wearing a belt while hunting.

I agree Upland is a decent niche to attempt to target. I also agree to a point about the oversaturation, you will have to be different and low enough price to get people to try to buy stuff. Skre came out a few years ago and I don't think they are doing great, no one knows who they are off of Rokslide. All solids would be a good bet so you wouldn't have to develop your own pattern or pay royalties. Buuttttt I wouldn't complain about ASAT being brought back...


Also if you need help with some freelance marketing or data analysis lemme know. That's what I do for a living. I have to run to a meeting but I will touch back on this thread later.

 

[elkyinzer]

No one has really nailed the treestand hunter market either.

I mean how hard is to make a midweight fleece jacket with a little wind resistance WITH POCKETS. I am talking to you, First Lite! I wear a fleece 90% of my early season treestand sits, and I wear my Marmot because the Woodbury doesn't have pockets. Such a stupid design flaw. Sitka makes a lot of nice stuff but the price point is ridiculous. I think Sitka may make one that would work but it's like $400. For a fleece. That's crazy shit.

A good pair of insulated coveralls. That's a huge gap in the market right now. Lots of whitetail hunters prefer coveralls over a bib and jacket. Myself included

Good cold weather accessories, reasonably priced gloves, muffs, boot insulators.

 

[Gerard Marcaurele]

For me, cost is a huge limiting factor. I would really like to rock 100% FL or Sitka clothing, but my budget can only take the cheapest options Black Ovis (or the like) offer. Personally, if you could help Under Armour develop better technical clothing for backcountry hunting or develop the clothing and have the RR Camo on it, id be all over that as long as the pieces are around $100 for shirts/pants/vests and $150-200 for jackets.

 

[Michiganhunter]

I think for the price under armor should have more features. All jackets/vests should have 2 zippers so when I sit I can move the bottom one up a bit to keep my jacket from bubleing out especially if you are riding a4 wheeler or motorcycle in.