Differant mule deer

[Pony Soldier]

Growing up in the far western counties in Montana, I was quite surprised when I saw my first eastern Mt deer. The western mulies don't have high rear points and somewhat resemble whitetail. They have overlapping ranges and often you would see a whitetail on one ridge and mulies on the next.

My question is has anyone seen or heard of any genetic studies that would indicate the interbreeding of these species? Just curious.

 

[huntnful]

How about this Idaho muley I killed that lived a few thousand feet above the whitetails. Looks a little strange to me haha. Lab aged him at 7 1/2 years old and went 165"

 

[Pony Soldier]

That's what I'm talking about. I've killed about 10 of those over 50+ years.

 

[Grundy53]

Eastern Montana

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

 

[Pony Soldier]

No. The western bucks have little length difference between the first branch and the second. Eastern Mt bucks have twice the length on the first branch than the second. A more classic muley.

 

[Bghntr416]

I read an article in one of the outdoor magazines years ago that discussed this. I don't think there was any science, just observations similar to what you are describing. I would think that there would be other physical characteristics in addition to just horn configuration. Interesting discussion though. I have seen similar bucks down in Eastern New Mexico.

 

[mfllood3800]

I shot this muley in So AZ. It clearly has White tail genes. I researched and discovered the Sonoran White tails from Mexico would breed with the muleys and create these types of bucks. The year I got this guy, there were typical "tall" antlered mule deer all around and none like him. I mounted him as he was unusual. Sadly he was at that 7 year range and regressing size wise already from the previous year.

 

[RMM]

I shot this muley in So AZ. It clearly has White tail genes. I researched and discovered the Sonoran White tails from Mexico would breed with the muleys and create these types of bucks. The year I got this guy, there were typical "tall" antlered mule deer all around and none like him. I mounted him as he was unusual. Sadly he was at that 7 year range and regressing size wise already from the previous year.

Sadly? Man killing a 7yr old deer is something probably 95% of hunters will never do. Who cares about him regressing a little. Hell he could be a forky and he would still be a trophy in my eyes. Outsmarting a 7yr old with a bow is an accomplishment in and of itself.

 

[Bghntr416]

Okay, lots of info on this out on the web...

White-tailed Deer x Mule Deer - Mammalian Hybrids

Hybridization of White-tailed Deer and Mule Deer is covered in this section of Mammalian Hybrids.

www.macroevolution.net

5 Signs to Tell if You Have an Elusive Whitetail-mule Deer Hybrid | OutdoorHub

Wait, there’s such a thing as whitetail-mule deer hybrids? Believe it or not, this is one animal that is not just an urban legend, although your chances for seeing a wild one are probably lower than being struck by lightning. A number of reasons keep whitetails and mule deer from breeding with...

www.outdoorhub.com

 

[Wyobohunter]

Hybridization: A Unique Tail of Whitetails and Mule Deer

Different species, even closely related ones, are normally kept from crossbreeding by geographical isolation but whitetail and mule deer are unique.

www.deeranddeerhunting.com

 

[Red Letters]

‘Rarest of rare’ animal spotted in Texas desert

The desert mule deer is a common sight in west Texas, but wildlife biologists in the area came across an extremely uncommon sight.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Mykolaivka887]

Duwane Adams killed a whitetail/mule deer hybrid in southern AZ a couple years ago. For a while, everyone speculated that it'd be a new world record under the Coues deer catagory, until genetic testing was done. There's been several of those hybrids killed in AZ over the past few decades. Pretty interesting twist of nature .....

 

[Pony Soldier]

A lot of that country along the western Montana border have muleys really high and whitetails in the bottom and both inbetween.

Thanks for the research. Even the high muleys don't have racks similar to eastern Montana muleys. They are all very similar to whitetails.Many have multiple points off the main beams. I have killed a couple in the 9x11 range.

 

[mfllood3800]

Sadly? Man killing a 7yr old deer is something probably 95% of hunters will never do. Who cares about him regressing a little. Hell he could be a forky and he would still be a trophy in my eyes. Outsmarting a 7yr old with a bow is an accomplishment in and of itself.

Normally yes, I was fortunate, the rut was on and he had hot does every where and lost all sense of wanting to live, as he was wanting to breed more. Right time right place for me, not so much him.
I knew nothing of this deer until 4 days into my hunt, when I spotted him with a limping buck and a dozen does. Next day I spot the limping buck and drop in from my vantage point gambling the big buck was there some where. In the desert it's so open you have short windows of opportunities and playing it safe is usually not one of them.
Once word got out he was dead, emails and texts flooded in on the stories of this guy. He was watched one year mauling a non responsive doe unwilling to breed. He killed her. Likely the limping buck lived close by, only because he was limping and limping badly, he was no threat. The stories are endless with this buck. They called "chocolate" and others called him OJ, all because his dark colored horns. I called him yummy. Old desert bucks do taste yummy.

 

[robby denning]

Growing up in the far western counties in Montana, I was quite surprised when I saw my first eastern Mt deer. The western mulies don't have high rear points and somewhat resemble whitetail. They have overlapping ranges and often you would see a whitetail on one ridge and mulies on the next.

My question is has anyone seen or heard of any genetic studies that would indicate the interbreeding of these species? Just curious.

Not "genetic studies", but yes, more than a few articles out there. If memory is right, Whitetail bucks more successful at breeding Mule Deer Does, but Mule Deer bucks not so successful breeding Whitetail Does, so even though offspring are sterile hybrids, the Whitetail does tend to produce a whitetail fawn while the mule deer does produce a sterile hybrid. so where they overlap, the Whitetail tend to outcompete the mule deer.

Totally from memory, don't ask me to prove.

Guided a hunter in mule deer country but he killed this Hyrbrid there. We've seen a few whitetails in the creek bottoms so there is opportunity for overlap in breeding. If this truly is a hybrid, according to what I wrote above, odds are it came from a mule deer doe, essentially eliminating her from the breeding population for that year.

He was a big bodied buck. 232 lbs. hog dressed; I wished I would have lab aged him

 

[huntngolf]

Here’s a whitetail I shot in western South Dakota in an area that is generally 80% whitetail and 20% muley. Body looked exactly like a whitetail but has forks on almost all his tines.

 

[Bghntr416]

Wow. We have been looking mostly at horns but the buck that Robby has shown really physically looks like a mule deer AND a whitetail got smooshed together. Huntngolf's buck has a very unique set of antlers. Very intriguing.

 

[Huntnnw]

Here’s a whitetail I shot in western South Dakota in an area that is generally 80% whitetail and 20% muley. Body looked exactly like a whitetail but has forks on almost all his tines. View attachment 401929View attachment 401930

that deer is not a muley hybrid. I have one in my house also like that and its 100% whitetail

 

[BoilerBowHunter]

that deer is not a muley hybrid. I have one in my house also like that and its 100% whitetail

I didn’t think whitetail could have bifurcated antlers/tines? Isn’t that a distinguishing characteristic of mule deer?

 

[huntngolf]

that deer is not a muley hybrid. I have one in my house also like that and its 100% whitetail

Oh I know its a whitetail. Should have worded my initial statement differently. Just interesting that its antlers have some characteristics typical of mule deer and there are mule deer in the area