Dies

[ecsn7d]

What is the break down on dies and the proper application? I am seeing neck sizing dies, full-length sizing dies, full-length bushing sizing dies, then seating dies. Some of these come in 2 or 3 die sets.

What would experienced reloaders recommend for a new reloader looking to work up hunting loads in 6.5 creedmoor with the goal of 1/2 moa accuracy in mind? Since working up for hunting, this would not need to be mass quantity.

 

[7layerburrito]

You can totally start with just the FL sizing die and a seating die. I'm sure more experienced reloaders will chime in but the neck sizing dies and FL bushing dies are useful when you start needing to work your brass with more precision. (The cases for that being you're into long distance/precision shooting and demand a whole bunch of exact factors out of your ammo such as very specific neck tension or you've got multi-time fired brass that you're resizing and working up in myriad ways).

 

[Trippy]

There aren't many bench rest shooters using a neck size only die if you ask Erik Cortina.

 

[ecsn7d]

Thank you for your input. Are their specific die manufacturers you would recommend?

 

[rayporter]

lee dies are generally thought of as the cheap stuff. but in this day of CNC mass production i doubt they are far behind anything but custom dies.
redding gets high marks from most folks.

options abound, but plain old full length dies and a seater will do you for a long time. there are ways to adjust neck tension on plain dies but that comes after you have passed the novice stage and it would only serve to confuse you at this stage.

adjustable seating dies are handy. and i do like wilsons a lot but it is money you dont really need to spend. the only reason to mention this is because you will fiddle with seating depth searching for accuracy. redding makes an adjustable seating die that works great.

neck tension in a hunting rifle is generally lost in the noise.

measuring tools are important.

no, you dont want a neck size die. they are used and do have a place but in general they are not used much.

 

[7layerburrito]

Can I hijack for a second to ask about neck sizing, @rayporter? (or anyone) I FL resize but was under the impression that a fired piece of brass is formed for your chamber so it stands to reason that you'd want to do the minimal amount of resizing/trimming after that. I was thinking that one would neck size in order for that to be the case. My question is: is it and if not when is just neck sizing important?

 

[rayporter]

ok- some history on benchrest. up until about 1999 there were a lot of shooters that neck sized and quite a few that did not size at all. they had necks that fit the chamber so perfect that they were called fitted necks. all that was done to shoot was to dump in powder and set a bullet on top. and it worked. but most shooters still neck sized because it was hard to keep up on the carbon and such, besides the little problem of spilling powder that compounded things if you had to remove a cartridge.

then came VV 133. so what? well most were shooting h 322 and it was shot at much lower pressures. now guys started to really add powder. a lot of powder. it has been speculated that pressures in a modern BR rifle are at least 10,000 psi over any book listing.

now it became necessary to full length size. and slowly every one came around to full length sizing. basically if you are going to keep your brass you will full length size. neck bushings and custom dies are the order of the day. and it has carried over to most competitions, with some small details left out. guys that shoot hot loads in the upper node will chuck 50 cases in the trash after a weekend. if you can shoot the lower node you can keep cases quite a while. back in the day of 322 it was common to wear out a barrel with 16 cases.

reading the old benchrest stories of the houston warehouse and older loading articles of fitted necks has given the impression that benchrest dies neck size. but those days are gone.

 

[rayporter]

ok, to really answer your question. yes you will need to fireform at least once to get the case to fill the chamber. i personally will set my die with a clicker that moves the die .00075 per click and i will back off at least 5 clicks for the first 4 shots to get the case to fill the chamber. this is not necessary with hunting rifles. but benchrest target shooter still fire a round or two to get the brass ready for competition.

other competitions such as F class dont do this as the accuracy is not needed. you might think of it like all they are doing is hitting a 10 inch circle and a benchrester is trying to hit a single bullet hole.

but that is not to say they are not building good rifles or using the BR techniques. they are steadily seeking out the best smiths and upgrading.

if you set up the case in the chamber correctly with 2 to 4 thousands of headspace your brass will be about perfect for a hunting rifle and last a long time.

 

[CO-AJ]

I would go FL with a seating die. Many good ones out there, Redding and Whidden Gun Works are what I think are two top brands. Check Brownells even Midway USA for die opinions. Spend some time on sites like Panhandle Precision or Precision Rifle Blog. So you spend an extra 100.00 for precision quality, they will last for a long time and you will know that you are running top quality sizes.

 

[7layerburrito]

Thanks for the background!

 

[flyinsquirel]

When was new to reloading I was neck sizing my 270. Eventually I ended up with a bunch of rounds that were tough to chamber due to never bumping the shoulder back. I now follow the Cortina Method of a very minimal shoulder bump using the FL die, and have ditched the neck dies. Same accuracy as far as I can tell.

 

[wind gypsy]

Skip neck sizing.

I have a bunch of redding FL bushing sizing dies. The internet said they were the best. Bushing dies are nice to minimize over working necks and get your desired neck tension.

If I were starting from scratch I'd buy forster FL sizing dies and have them hone the necks to the appropriate diameter for my brass of choice. Save money and have straighter ammo. Id probably get hornady FL bushing dies over redding too.

redding or forster micrometer seating dies.

 

[ecsn7d]

Who is this Cortina fella that keeps getting brought up?

 

[johnminnick4743]

Just type in his name on YouTube, and you will see. I'm a patron, so I get to see all his videos. In short, he puts everything in layman's terms for competing to hunting. I'm just a simple hunter, but he has helped me in tightening my groups.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I just use a full length sizing die and a seating die. I’ve had great luck with just keeping it simple. I just finished sizing and prepping 500 pieces of 300 win mag brass (lapua, Norma, nosler).

 

[7layerburrito]

I just use a full length sizing die and a seating die. I’ve had great luck with just keeping it simple. I just finished sizing and prepping 500 pieces of 300 win mag brass (lapua, Norma, nosler).

You got a fancy new Win Mag or something you're reloading for?

 

[ecsn7d]

I just use a full length sizing die and a seating die. I’ve had great luck with just keeping it simple. I just finished sizing and prepping 500 pieces of 300 win mag brass (lapua, Norma, nosler).

What are you using for dies?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

You got a fancy new Win Mag or something you're reloading for?

It just so happens that I do!

What are you using for dies?

Just a basic rcbs set but I sort of want to get a micrometer die.

 

[SDHNTR]

In my opinion, the best bang for buck out there is a 2 die set of Forster benchrest dies. You really don’t need anything more than that.

 

[Quant]

Most use FL sizing for hunting and PRS, but I can’t speak to other applications. It’s important to note, however, that even when you FL size, you should only be bumping the shoulders back about 0.002. Pushing the shoulders back to SAAMI specs will overwork the brass, particularly on belted cartridges.

I like using an arbor press to seat bullets for precision shooting, so I have wasted a lot of money buying die sets with a seater die. Something to consider if you are anal about seating depth.