Defiance sold to Bob Beck

[MattB]

I don’t think that Defiance was owned by the guy who created it when it was sold. Perhaps managed but I don’t think owned.

 

[BBob]

I don’t think that Defiance was owned by the guy who created it when it was sold. Perhaps managed but I don’t think owned.

Isn't Glen Harrison the founder of Nesika (which got bought up by Dakota) and then moved on to found Defiance. Are you saying you think he sold out prior to this sale to Beck?

 

[SDHNTR]

Wow, first McMillian and now Defiance? He bought two bellwethers in the industry inside of a year or two? Who’s bankrolling Beck?

 

[hartigjosh]

I like how people automatically bad mouth things like this without facts or true knowledge on the matter... that mentality should stay on other forums where keyboard warriors are welcome, not here.
I own a MOA rifle from Bob. Its phenomenal and the customer service (in particular from Seth) has been outstanding. I have talked to Bob personally as it relates to hunts and have nothing but great experiences.
In the height of the ammo craze these guys went out of their way to make sure I had what I needed for the season, they answered any and all questions I had in a timely fashion throughout the life of my gun, and have treated me and others I have recommended to them well over the years.
M&A can be a good thing in the hands of the right people and the scale of this one is small business owner to small business owner which we should all encourage... this is not Cabelas/Bass Pro debauchery or anti gun PE backed M&A in the outdoor space like we have seen. I wish Bob luck and don't own a Defiance action but won't hesitate to call him on my next build whether he is using a proprietary or defiance action.

 

[dirtytough]

Soooooooo

After the sale, Defiance realizes that they will have to close up shop in under a month unless they increase their prices by 30%.

I’m not in M&A’s. But I would be firing whoever analyzed that deal and said buy, if true.

 

[SDHNTR]

Soooooooo

After the sale, Defiance realizes that they will have to close up shop in under a month unless they increase their prices by 30%.

A Tenacity, their budget option, is now listed at $1,595……

Holy smokes! But that’s not a 30% increase, that’s a 60% increase!

 

[SDHNTR]

Yeah, Tenacity is the biggest jump in price. Others aren’t quite as bad.

Tenacity $1,595
Ruckus Tactical $1,695
Anti-X $1,745
Deviant $1,745
Rebel $1,645

I don’t see why anyone would choose Defiance at these new prices. Craziness.

Maybe I should call them up and get some small parts ‘kits’ coming, or just get another complete bolt. It might not be an option in another year.

Definitely makes the Tenacity obsolete!

 

[Lawnboi]

Yeah, Tenacity is the biggest jump in price. Others aren’t quite as bad.

Tenacity $1,595
Ruckus Tactical $1,695
Anti-X $1,745
Deviant $1,745
Rebel $1,645

I don’t see why anyone would choose Defiance at these new prices. Craziness.

Maybe I should call them up and get some small parts ‘kits’ coming, or just get another complete bolt. It might not be an option in another year.

I’m in the same boat. I’d like a firing pin, bolt stop and extractor/ejector minimum on hand.

 

[Dunky]

Yeah was quite a blow after looking for a left hand anti x for months and finally found one yesterday for $1870 Had to pass at that price

 

[wind gypsy]

Soooooooo

After the sale, Defiance realizes that they will have to close up shop in under a month unless they increase their prices by 30%.

A Tenacity, their budget option, is now listed at $1,595……

Have you heard this stated? Seems odd that they'd be in dire enough situation that prices would save them in a month?

This whole thing is interesting, curious about lots of things:

• How did Beck come up with $ to purchase mcmillan and defiance? Already wealthy and how did he get there or did he finance it with investors/bank?
• How the hell did the purchase go through if the financials showed this situation? Maybe they knew and always intended to transition to a lower volume/higher margin plan?
• Who the hell is going to buy a defiance action at those prices?
• How does this impact the builders who use branded defiance actions like GAP, APR, Rbros, etc? Can't imagine they would stick with defiance actions if they see the same % of price increases.
• I perceive defiance to be the highest volume custom action maker, maybe that's wrong? If they are it makes me wonder about a ripple effect from people migrating to other options like lone peak, kelbly, impact, zermatt, terminus, etc.
• If they stay in business i cant imagine the lead times will remain all that long..

 

[DRUSS]

LRO has a podcast with Bob about this

 

[ljalberta]

Woof. I wanted an Anti-X. I think I’ll give Pierce a spin instead.

 

[gbflyer]

Little rant I guess, aimed at no one in particular:

I honestly don’t know how the small folks in the gun industry stay in business. I was looking at Bugholes site the other day. He has a lot of inventory and does nice work too. Shop rate is listed at $50/hr. Are you kidding me? That’s what a laborer costs me that has invested in a lunch box. Look around and find out what the shop rate is in any commercial machine shop in the country.

Seems like the ammo folks have treated it like a real business, those prices have kept pace, and then some maybe?

I bought a nice 3-9 Swarovski scope around 1990 for $600. It’s replacement, the Z3, can be bought today for $699.

I talked to the nice lady at Hart Barrels at length in November. I’m good at that, I am willing to ask things that I probably shouldn’t. There are 5 of them working there, high 7 figures invested in machinery, constantly maintaining tooling, more in buildings, buying raw materials and wildly increased pricing, insurance, dealing with state and federal agencies, and they still sell a barrel for $400 retail that there is 4-5 man hours in. Less for licensees and commercial customers. Like Crazy Joe says “Come on!”

Jim Borden cranks out precision actions as fast as he can. He’s usually in the shop 7 days a week. Mostly a family business. He’s in the same boat. I think they are around $1400 on one, have been for years. His stuff will hold its own with anyone out there and if there is an issue it is dealt with swiftly.

I’m not made of money by a long shot. I would say that I would much rather pay a fair amount more than not having anything to work with, or something that has been short cut trying to keep it too cheap.

 

[QuackAttack]

The bolt gun industry is contracting. It’s not dead or close to it, but the days of massive innovations, new companies, legions of guys trying to get into competition…they are gone. The wars were a big driver of precision rifle innovation and training. They are over.

I expect to see consolidation of manufacturers, smaller cap companies, shorter wait times, and survivors diversifying into making more than gun parts.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Have you heard this stated? Seems odd that they'd be in dire enough situation that prices would save them in a month?

This whole thing is interesting, curious about lots of things:

• How did Beck come up with $ to purchase mcmillan and defiance? Already wealthy and how did he get there or did he finance it with investors/bank?
• How the hell did the purchase go through if the financials showed this situation? Maybe they knew and always intended to transition to a lower volume/higher margin plan?
• Who the hell is going to buy a defiance action at those prices?
• How does this impact the builders who use branded defiance actions like GAP, APR, Rbros, etc? Can't imagine they would stick with defiance actions if they see the same % of price increases.
• I perceive defiance to be the highest volume custom action maker, maybe that's wrong? If they are it makes me wonder about a ripple effect from people migrating to other options like lone peak, kelbly, impact, zermatt, terminus, etc.
• If they stay in business i cant imagine the lead times will remain all that long..

Post # 126

Defiance bought out

Love my Surgeon actions... funny how ALL the loyalty to Defiance is crying :ROFLMAO:

www.snipershide.com

 

[wind gypsy]

You ever read the whole story on that? I suggest you do. I know people that have done the same and got there hands slapped. Bob got lite up because of his influence in the industry IMO.

You know people who shot animals they didn't have tags for, never bought a tag for, didn't self report, and then aired it on TV, and only got a slap on wrist?

I did some reading to refresh on the story. From what I gather from news reports and statements from Bob, the facts are the following:

• Bob shot 2 whitetails in ID on film for his TV show but he only had 1 deer tag
• He did not purchase a second tag for the second deer after the fact. He stated that when he got home to Oregon he looked through his office for a missing second tag which didn't exist.
• Bob still aired the episode of both deer getting shot and the episode even included him explaining how you can buy 2 deer tags in ID, knowing that he shot a deer on that episode without having a tag for it.

Disputed details:

• It was reported in articles that Bob never tagged the first deer and instead put the tag on the second deer which would make the violation much more egregious to me. Bob disputed this and said he tagged the first deer and was later surprised to not have a 2nd tag that he thought he bought. I never saw this driven to ground definitively but based on the other chain of events and his statements, no way I'd take Bob's word for it.

With how ID licenses at least used to work when you could buy a second, I can see how a guy who buys two every year could forget to buy a second and make the mistake thinking they had 2 because they always did previously. It's a stupid mistake to make but we all make dumb mistakes occasionally. However, I have a hard time giving Bob the benefit of doubt after being so bold as to air an episode killing a deer that the state can obviously see you never had a tag for and even explain the regulations on the episode!

 

[BBob]

“We understand there are many people angry with the situation, us and the Owner included.”

“It seems strange that the Extreme Group, owned by Bob and Chris Beck, discovered this after they acquired Defiance.”

They (Beck & Co) couldn’t have been so stupid.

 

[wind gypsy]

They (Beck & Co) couldn’t have been so stupid.

One would think so.. but the whole thing with airing a TV hunting episode in which he kills 2 deer in ID, explains how to get 2 deer tags in ID, but knows full well he only purchased 1 tag and tagged 1 of the 2 deer, makes me question if it is possible.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

They (Beck & Co) couldn’t have been so stupid.

Well they did air an incriminating TV episode that showed them illegally taking game...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I have no dog in the fight and anyone can read my opinion from a business standpoint on whats going on on the SH thread. I own no Defiance actions although I've had several, and wouldn't buy any of their current offerings over others on the market price increase or not.

With that said, I'm not sure it's completely fair to bring the poaching incident into this. Bob was called out, charged and I'm sure it was an embarrassing moment for him and still continues to be. The judicial system is designed in theory to be corrective, not to mention the court of public opinion he went through. So unless something happened after the fact that suggests he continues to engage in illegal activity then I think it's fair to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's in check, but that's not to say it should be forgotten. He's made himself quite successful so unless he's just incredibly lucky I would say it's safe to assume he's the kind of person that learns. I'm sure as **** not going to sit here and say I never did anything wrong and said things to get out of it, I think most of us have at some point but some of us learn the consequences of that whether we got away with it or not.

Regardless the fait of Defiance is still concerning given that there are consumers and dealers who have deposits in that may not be able to absorb those losses if the ship sinks which we have seen several companies do in this industry.