D.O.P.E. Advice

[NWVeteran]

If you really want accuracy, probably should clean between different brands of ammo. Different powders sometimes don't mix well & the alloy of the jacket will definitely be different.
BTW the box info isn't often relevant, also you have lot to lot variance.

I actually run a wet patch and then dry patches until it’s clean every 6 to 8 rounds I know that’s overkill but it doesn’t bother me.

 

[NWVeteran]

If you don’t have a chrono I’d recommend the magneto speed . It will shift your poi but works great for getting velocity numbers . When making a load I’ll do 5 round ladders 3 for group with out the chrono on the barrel and 2 for velocity .

I have a prochrono DLX. I am pretty happy with it but kicking myself in the butt for not bringing it. I had also left my spotting scope and camera to also help get a visual on my shots. Fortunately I have good glass in the rifle and can spot my impacts but the ability to record and play back is nice.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I actually run a wet patch and then dry patches until it’s clean every 6 to 8 rounds I know that’s overkill but it doesn’t bother me.

Christensen barrels are weird. Maybe that helps them, but my Tikka barrels like at least 40-50 rounds through them after a cleaning before I'll hunt or shoot long range with them. I honestly don't clean them like I used to (every 500 rounds). I pretty much never clean them now and haven't seen any accuracy loss.

 

[madcalfe]

you don't need a chronograph.
download geoballistic or a ballistic app on your phone that has velocity truing.
zero at 100yards. shoot out to 500-700 yards, true your velocity on the app by entering your MOA/MIL at whatever yardage your gonna pick to true your velocity.
going off the box FPS is a ballpark FPS. different barrels can be slower/faster. Barrel length will also affect FPS.

 

[ZipsNLbs]

I have a prochrono DLX. I am pretty happy with it but kicking myself in the butt for not bringing it. I had also left my spotting scope and camera to also help get a visual on my shots. Fortunately I have good glass in the rifle and can spot my impacts but the ability to record and play back is nice.

Make sure to let us know how you make out once you get back to the range ! Good luck brother

 

[Scottf270]

Would anyone really not expect two totally different loads to shoot totally different? Especially up to 1200 yards.........

 

[NWVeteran]

Would anyone really not expect two totally different loads to shoot totally different? Especially up to 1200 yards.........

I wasn’t expecting the loads to be identical or shoot the same. I just wasn’t expecting the difference that I was getting. When you are hitting center and then later shooting completely over the target even at close ranges seemed off and odd to me

 

[Marshfly]

A 300 Win Mag doesn't have the most accuracy inducing chamber specs to begin with. Add in two totally different factory loads and bullets and you absolutely can see huge variance. This isn't surprising at all.

Putting the bullet and speed info on the ammo box into the Shooter app and working from the chart it spit out would have been the way to go and would have saved you time and money.

 

[bojangles808]

Definitely seems strange that the accubonds with a much lower bc would have less drop than the bondstrike with a much higher bc.

this is what I was confused about

 

[EdP]

Muley Fever said:

You really dont need a chrono. I zero at 100 then shoot out to 300 or 400 yards without adjusting my scope. I put the actual drops into my ballistics calculator and that gives me my velocity and drops out to my max distance. Then I just go and verify/tweek my data out to distance.

and madcafe said something similar:

you don't need a chronograph.
download geoballistic or a ballistic app on your phone that has velocity truing.
zero at 100yards. shoot out to 500-700 yards, true your velocity on the app by entering your MOA/MIL at whatever yardage your gonna pick to true your velocity.

It appears to me that both approaches seek to determine velocity based on drop when drop is not determined by velocity alone but by velocity and BC. This means the published BC is assumed to be correct but I often read that published BCs are optimistic, particularly with some mfgs. I guess if you are "truing" out to the furthest distance you intend to shoot it makes no difference, but if using a ballistic program to predict drop at further distances there would be a chance for error that chronograph data could eliminate. The "truing" then would be for BC. If this is incorrect perhaps the quoted posters will explain.

 

[madcalfe]

It appears to me that both approaches seek to determine velocity based on drop when drop is not determined by velocity alone but by velocity and BC. This means the published BC is assumed to be correct but I often read that published BCs are optimistic, particularly with some mfgs. I guess if you are "truing" out to the furthest distance you intend to shoot it makes no difference, but if using a ballistic program to predict drop at further distances there would be a chance for error that chronograph data could eliminate. The "truing" then would be for BC. If this is incorrect perhaps the quoted posters will explain.

I was just saying if he doesn't have a chronograph. no need to go out a buy one. if he's already on paper at the extended ranges he already knows the amount he needs to dial. so a ballistic calculator with MV truing will give him a close true MV which is probably alot different than the box. I use a chronograph for load development every time because i hate wasting components.

https://appliedballisticsllc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/Ballistic-Calibration.pdf#:~:text=However%20there%20is%20a%20good%20rule%20to%20use,range%2C%20then%20you%20need%20to%20true%20your%20BC.

This article will explain a lot but to summarize it If your trajectory is off in the supersonic range, then you need to true your muzzle velocity. If your trajectory is off in the transonic - subsonic range, then you need to true your BC. Pretty much every hunter will be in supersonic range for a hunting scenario due to proper bullet expansion.

 

[Crews]

My opinion on how this could be done the right way next time. Seems to me like you are changing way too many variables midstream to expect consistent results.

1. Set up profile (accurately) for your rifle and Nosler Accubond ammo in ballistic calculator. Need tp make sure you're selecting the right projectile from the library. Use banded BC's if they're an option. Use MV from the box (try dope, won't be correct)

2. Zero your rifle with Nosler Accubond. Not 2" high at 100... actual zero. If the click value of your optic isn't fine enough to get you to exact zero, fill in the zero offset boxes in calculator. This shouldn't take more than 10 shots. Do not clean your barrel.

3. Use the try dope generated in calculator from box MV to shoot at a target somewhere from 400-600 yards. Use impacts to figure out actual elevation needed. Verify it. Take that actual elevation needed back to the calculator and use it to true the muzzle velocity. This shouldn't take more than 10 shots either. If it does take more than 10, you probably shouldn't be shooting at animals that far away.

4. If you want to practice with cheaper ammo, repeat process. Completely different profile. Pay attention to how the zero changes from Accubonds. That needs to be entered into zero offset.

 

[Formidilosus]

It appears to me that both approaches seek to determine velocity based on drop when drop is not determined by velocity alone but by velocity and BC. This means the published BC is assumed to be correct but I often read that published BCs are optimistic, particularly with some mfgs.

Most good bullets have legitimate BC’s available for them now. Verified BC by Bryan Litz, Hornday Doppler, etc.

Truing at range with a solid rifle, scope, and with a legit zero is a very functional way to do it.

I guess if you are "truing" out to the furthest distance you intend to shoot it makes no difference,

Correct, if nothing changes, trueing at max distance absorbs the errors for the most part.

but if using a ballistic program to predict drop at further distances there would be a chance for error that chronograph data could eliminate. The "truing" then would be for BC. If this is incorrect perhaps the quoted posters will explain.

There are errors in using a chrono and MV as well and it will still require it to be trued at distance. And no one should be shooting at animals farther than they regularly and consistently practice- let alone farther than they have shot and trued at.

 

[NWVeteran]

My opinion on how this could be done the right way next time. Seems to me like you are changing way too many variables midstream to expect consistent results.

1. Set up profile (accurately) for your rifle and Nosler Accubond ammo in ballistic calculator. Need tp make sure you're selecting the right projectile from the library. Use banded BC's if they're an option. Use MV from the box (try dope, won't be correct)

2. Zero your rifle with Nosler Accubond. Not 2" high at 100... actual zero. If the click value of your optic isn't fine enough to get you to exact zero, fill in the zero offset boxes in calculator. This shouldn't take more than 10 shots. Do not clean your barrel.

3. Use the try dope generated in calculator from box MV to shoot at a target somewhere from 400-600 yards. Use impacts to figure out actual elevation needed. Verify it. Take that actual elevation needed back to the calculator and use it to true the muzzle velocity. This shouldn't take more than 10 shots either. If it does take more than 10, you probably shouldn't be shooting at animals that far away.

4. If you want to practice with cheaper ammo, repeat process. Completely different profile. Pay attention to how the zero changes from Accubonds. That needs to be entered into zero offset.

Yes, usually I zero with and only use that load. However, like I mentioned with the cost of Nosler Accubonds at $4 a round and with this being a new rifle/scope my intention was to get a baseline with cheaper ammo (Norma 180g Bondstrikes) then when I had my data I was going to fine tune and make my adjustments with the actual ammo I will be using for this rifle (Nosler) I anticipated and expected there to be changes as it’s obvious a completely different round with BC. What I wasn’t expecting was for the Nosler with lower BC to be so far off that I wasn’t even hitting target from 400 yards on. Basically it was pointless to even run the cheaper ammo. I just was not expecting that much of a difference.

Correct, I use a 100 yard zero and it’s a true zero I do not use the old school zero at 1.5 high. I set a true zero at 100 and build my dope from 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 550,600,650, and so on. Once I have my dope card I will then confirm multiple times at the range because it seems like at any given day at any distance I can be off .25 too .50 MOA.

I did hit the range today with the chrono and velocity was at 3037 fps. I was able to fine tune and confirm my card. I will shoot out to 1200 but for my skill level that is pushing it. My max shooting distance I set for myself is 700 yards I am consistent to that range with putting the round where I want it. Today I was unable to shoot past 850 as I was getting a heavy mirage.

I appreciate all the info and everyone helping me out.

 

[Crews]

Basically it was pointless to even run the cheaper ammo. I just was not expecting that much of a difference.

I wouldn't say it's pointless, we all need to practice if we want to be proficient. As long as the practice ammo is consistent, it doesn't really matter what the drops are. Training value is the same.

Just another reason to have two completely independent profiles built out in the calculator.