CWD Impact in WI

[ShakoMako]

Agreed 100%!

And farm-raised deer

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Might as well post the Keith Warren video where he claims CWD is fake.

CWDs impact on the deer herd is what’s fake.

I’ve hunted in SE WI 38 years. I see and hunters as a whole kill the same numbers of deer we always have. My son and i went out driving around in Jefferson Cty, a CWD cty, looking for concentrations of deer to target during the late season. We counted 46 the first night and 57 the second night all around public land. I shot 4 deer this year, 1 buck and 2 does with bow and one buck with gun. I’ve averaged 2-3 deer/year since 1987.

If you actually took the time to look at the DNR deer metrics site which has all the data from 1960 to present WI hunters have killed an almost identical number of deer pre 2000-2010 as they have since 2010. You might ask why the spike from 2000-2010??? It’s simple, if you look at the massive spike in red (anterless deer) in the graphs it’s pretty obvious those record kills were bolstered by near unlimited doe tags from 2000-2010. We even had to shoot a doe to earn the right to shoot a buck. The DNR encouraged hunters to kill as many does as they could and they did. This wholesale slaughter was driven by CWD hysteria propagated by guys like Patrick Durkin. By 2010 hunters have decided to self govern on their own to not fill the 6 doe tags they were given a year and the deer kill has returned to its normal sustainable number which is essentially identical to pre 2000 numbers. It’s extremely obvious on the graph.

But yeah, all the deer are being wiped out by CWD right? Durkin is an alarmist stop buying into it.

 

[jmez]

Well that was certainly an ironic article. He offers zero proof that CWD is decimating the herd. Then scolds others for their "emotional pleas" for considering anything other than CWD. Fail.

Sent from my moto g power 5G - 2024 using Tapatalk

 

[schur7559]

I’ve hunted Sauk county since the early 2000’s. The deer herd now seems as healthy as it’s ever been numbers wise. However, the most concerning aspect to me is the lack of mature bucks. I’m lucky to get 1-2 bucks 4.5 years old on camera each year and almost never have anything I think are older than that. 10-15 years ago we had a much higher ratio of mature bucks including a booner every 5 years or so. This doesn’t make any sense to me as our hunting party as well as the neighbors are more selective now with what they shoot than theyve ever been. A couple years ago I had about 8 bucks that I thought were 3.5, the following year not a single 4.5 year old. What happens to all of them? I’m a forester and meet with a ton of landowners who have had said the same thing.

 

[Balderdash]

I’ve hunted Sauk county since the early 2000’s. The deer herd now seems as healthy as it’s ever been numbers wise. However, the most concerning aspect to me is the lack of mature bucks. I’m lucky to get 1-2 bucks 4.5 years old on camera each year and almost never have anything I think are older than that. 10-15 years ago we had a much higher ratio of mature bucks including a booner every 5 years or so. This doesn’t make any sense to me as our hunting party as well as the neighbors are more selective now with what they shoot than theyve ever been. A couple years ago I had about 8 bucks that I thought were 3.5, the following year not a single 4.5 year old. What happens to all of them? I’m a forester and meet with a ton of landowners who have had said the same thing.

The impact that cross bow hunting has had on mature bucks can't be underestimated. On the properties I hunt, there's been a huge increase in hunting during the archery seasons, and even though most hunters in our group pass on small bucks, very few bucks are making it past 3.5 years due to increased pressure when mature bucks are most vulnerable. Hardly anyone even rifle hunts much anymore. It's little more than a nostalgic social event for many in WI these days; for many, the serious hunting takes place during the rut with a cross bow.

 

[Balderdash]

CWDs impact on the deer herd is what’s fake.

I’ve hunted in SE WI 38 years. I see and hunters as a whole kill the same numbers of deer we always have. My son and i went out driving around in Jefferson Cty, a CWD cty, looking for concentrations of deer to target during the late season. We counted 46 the first night and 57 the second night all around public land. I shot 4 deer this year, 1 buck and 2 does with bow and one buck with gun. I’ve averaged 2-3 deer/year since 1987.

If you actually took the time to look at the DNR deer metrics site which has all the data from 1960 to present WI hunters have killed an almost identical number of deer pre 2000-2010 as they have since 2010. You might ask why the spike from 2000-2010??? It’s simple, if you look at the massive spike in red (anterless deer) in the graphs it’s pretty obvious those record kills were bolstered by near unlimited doe tags from 2000-2010. We even had to shoot a doe to earn the right to shoot a buck. The DNR encouraged hunters to kill as many does as they could and they did. This wholesale slaughter was driven by CWD hysteria propagated by guys like Patrick Durkin. By 2010 hunters have decided to self govern on their own to not fill the 6 doe tags they were given a year and the deer kill has returned to its normal sustainable number which is essentially identical to pre 2000 numbers. It’s extremely obvious on the graph.

But yeah, all the deer are being wiped out by CWD right? Durkin is an alarmist stop buying into it.


View attachment 812101

Classic Durkin - cherry picking statistics, passing them off without the proper context, and then gas lighting anyone with alternate explanations for actual causality.

Thanks for posting that graph and the proper context to explain it. Unmitigated anterless harvest in the name of CWD absolutely decimated the deer herd in many areas of Northern WI in the early 2000's, and due to hard winters and heavy predator loads it hasn't recovered. Of course Durkin wrote article after article admonishing alternate viewpoints, explaining why the hunters who didn't agree with the DNR's war on deer in areas with lower deer densities and zero cases of CWD in the wild were treglodites who didn't understand game management, the effects of predators and forestry practices. Yet here we sit with a decimated herd in parts of Northern WI, while no one has been held accountable for the negligent mismanagement that has occurred. Quite literally, the cure was far worse than the disease. It was all very Orwelian, trying to convince people that they shouldn't believe what they could clearly see right in front of them.

 

[Yoder]

I don't really care if they ban feeding/baiting, but the premise that it spreads CWD more than natural deer to deer contact/normal deer habits is functionally and demonstratably false. Very little baiting or feeding has traditionally occurred in the Southern portion of WI, especially in the agricultural regions where CWD is most prevalent. In contrast, baiting and feeding was/is near religion in the Northwoods area of WI, the UP and parts of Canada, where, in point of fact, CWD is almost completely absent in wild deer. CWD has been found in northern counties, but almost exclusively on fenced in deer farms that get their deer from other areas. If deer baiting were so closely linked to CWD existence and unmitigated transmission, why wouldn't it be far more prevalent through areas in which baiting was/is widely practiced?


And if we're going to ban baiting, deer farming via food plots better be right with it. It unnaturally congregates deer, and unlike actual agriculture, unharvested crops left just for deer congregates them for much longer periods than does traditional agriculture harvest cycles.

So, deer eating nose to nose out of a bait pile doesn't spread disease? Maybe they are wearing masks.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

So, deer eating nose to nose out of a bait pile doesn't spread disease? Maybe they are wearing masks.

Does it spread more at a bait pile vs alfalfa or wheat field?

 

[Yoder]

Does it spread more at a bait pile vs alfalfa or wheat field?

I don't have data. I doubt there is any. Logic would lead me to believe that it would. It's also way easier to regulate baiting. Why intentionally congregate deer when you know there is an infectious disease? I personally am not that worried about CWD. Most deer will get shot before they die from it anyway.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

The impact that cross bow hunting has had on mature bucks can't be underestimated. On the properties I hunt, there's been a huge increase in hunting during the archery seasons, and even though most hunters in our group pass on small bucks, very few bucks are making it past 3.5 years due to increased pressure when mature bucks are most vulnerable. Hardly anyone even rifle hunts much anymore. It's little more than a nostalgic social event for many in WI these days; for many, the serious hunting takes place during the rut with a cross bow.

Crossbow hunting has definitely impacted the mature bucks on the landscape. So far in 2024 the Crossbow Buck kill is at 38,573 and climbing. Overall (Buck and Doe) Crossbow kill now surpasses bow kills by a pretty significant margin (crossbow 60,427 to archery 36,955) and the gap widens every year. Harvest data is all here:

Wisconsin deer harvest summary | | Wisconsin DNR

dnr.wisconsin.gov

I think it’s a pretty logical conclusion that many have relegated the rifle/shotgun to nostalgia, bought a crossbow, and now focus their buck efforts during the rut. And the numbers show they’ve been pretty successful at it. I mean crossbow hunters have killed more bucks (38,573) than archery hunters have killed total deer buck and doe (36,955). Don’t tell me that hasn’t had an effect on the numbers of bucks reaching maturity. Durkin will of course blame it on CWD and call me a science denier and an idiot

 

[Yoder]

Crossbow hunting has definitely impacted the mature bucks on the landscape. So far in 2024 the Crossbow Buck kill is at 38,573 and climbing. Overall (Buck and Doe) Crossbow kill now surpasses bow kills by a pretty significant margin (crossbow 60,427 to archery 36,955) and the gap widens every year. Harvest data is all here:

Wisconsin deer harvest summary | | Wisconsin DNR

dnr.wisconsin.gov

I think it’s a pretty logical conclusion that many have relegated the rifle/shotgun to nostalgia, bought a crossbow, and now focus their buck efforts during the rut. And the numbers show they’ve been pretty successful at it. I mean crossbow hunters have killed more bucks (38,573) than archery hunters have killed total deer buck and doe (36,955). Don’t tell me that hasn’t had an effect on the numbers of bucks reaching maturity. Durkin will of course blame it on CWD and call me a science denier and an idiot

Buy a crossbow.

 

[Bull_n_heat]

I stated nothing about researchers attempting to create job security. I have no idea if it even originated from a research facility, but if it did their actions had enormous consequences that we all are now left to deal with. That's my point.

Has there been any formal documentation that it actually originated from a research facility or are we both speculating?

My apologies. I quoted your original post and then added some thoughts about job security based on someone else's post later in the tread. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

But to your second question, yes. The CSU captive mule deer contracting CWD first is very well documented. First case was identified in the late 1960s, and it wasn't even until the late 1970s that they were able to isolate it as a TSE (transmissible spongiform encephalopathy). This has certainly had consequences, but my point is that it's both not fair, and not helpful, to chastise the researchers at that facility.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Buy a crossbow.

Nah…..i’m actually going the other way and bought a recurve. I don’t need a crossbow to kill a buck a lot do though. Nothing i’m going to do to stop it people are generally inherently lazy and will most often take the path of least resistance. So the use of crossbow during archery season is here to stay. I actually savor the struggle but most are the opposite and hate to struggle they want instant success with minimal effort. I killed 4 deer this year i’m doing fine.

Now, all that being said there is no arguing crossbows have effected the age structure of bucks in WI. I see less mature Bucks on public than i used to archery hunting simply because there are less of them. That isn’t going to get better any time soon. But like i said nothing i’m going to do to change that. I’ve just adjusted my expectations acccordingly and shoot the best i can find of what’s actually there. Thats most often 2.5-3.5 yo bucks now. Finding older than that on SE WI public is becoming increasingly difficult if that’s what someone is after, i’m not. I expect as more pick up crossbows and start to hunt during archery season instead of gun season the age structure of bucks will continue to decline in WI.

But really this thread is about Durkins incorrect assertion CWD is decreasing deer populations. This isn’t the case there are plenty of deer, albeit overall they’re younger.

 

[Balderdash]

So, deer eating nose to nose out of a bait pile doesn't spread disease? Maybe they are wearing masks.

Can it be conclusively demonstrated that bait pile usage results in greater rates of spread than natural deer behaviors?

I'm sure there's studies on how its spread; however, any conclusions and extrapolations to a wider scale that are drawn by any such studies fall short of explaining what's actually happening with wild deer. The reality that's there for all to see is that if bait pile use is conclusively linked to greater infection and quicker spread rates, why is CWD almost absent in areas that had/have widespread deer feeding and baiting. Again, in point of fact, CWD is far more prevalent in agricultural areas where baiting and feeding is infrequent to non existent. Certainly there's discrepancies in deer densities between those areas, but if feeding/baiting fostered CWD spread, you'd still see higher infection ratios where baiting/feeding is widespread, not the opposite, which is what is actually occurring right now in the biggest lab of them all.

My other point is that if it can be proved/believed that baiting spreads CWD faster than normal deer behaviors, which I'm not saying it does, why aren't food plots also being targeted? They fall into the same categories that supposedly make baiting a bad idea.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

,but my point is that it's both not fair, and not helpful, to chastise the researchers at that facility.

To that point, we will just have to agree to disagree. They absolutely should be chastised and held responsible for their recklessness, if in fact they were responsible for this disease.

They opened Pandora's box.....allegedly