Custom/Semi-Custom Questions

[bigbuckdj]

I am looking at rifles and I am a bit lost on what is what.
I have a few questions, I am not asking what to buy, I just want to make sure I understand it.

Custom build: gun smith will buy a premium action(curtis, peirce, lone peak, etc.) or true a cheap action( rem 700) and machine a barrel blank to fit that action, install a trigger, brake, stock, etc.

Semi-custom: A person will buy a tikka, howa, or other good production action and add a pre fit barrel, trigger, and stock. maybe have the barrel threaded for a muzzle brake. They are basically buying a well known production action and adding custom parts to it.

Do I understand that right? Is the action and the custom fit of the barrel to the premium action the primary difference between custom and semi-custom?

Are there some gunsmiths building without machines? It seems like some people are sending their tikka or howa action off for someone to do the semi custom build for them. Does that person have better tools and knowledge to assemble the gun? Is it generally accepted that there's some room for error in the semi custom assembly process?

I appreciate the help. I want to get a rifle and there seems to be zillions of options.

 

[stan5677]

Wish I could help you I'm in the same boat but I am going full custom action, barrel, trigger, stock, bottom metal.

 

[bigbuckdj]

I think I’m going to do the same. It seems like with the production or semi custom route, there’s examples where people end up getting machine work done to get the accuracy they want. It seems like it may be cheaper in the long run to just get a custom made by a reputable local gunsmith. At least there is some local recourse if it doesn’t shoot.


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[FLS]

Custom = you pick out the individual components you want then having a gunsmith do the necessary machine work, stock work, action work, to assemble them.
Semi custom= Upgrading a factory rifle. Screwing a prefit barrel onto a factory action, upgrading the trigger, then bolting/ bedding it into a stock or chassis.

I have both. Accuracy is determined by the quality of components and the skill of the person assembling them. I have rifles built on older ( C prefix) trued 700 actions that are just as accurate as the ones built on “custom” (still mass produced) actions.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I think I’m going to do the same. It seems like with the production or semi custom route, there’s examples where people end up getting machine work done to get the accuracy they want. It seems like it may be cheaper in the long run to just get a custom made by a reputable local gunsmith. At least there is some local recourse if it doesn’t shoot.


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Yes the difference between a custom or semi custom build is the action, a trued 700 is not considered custom though.
When it comes to putting a rifle together the action is the one constant you're stuck with so it's never a bad idea to get a custom.

The one exception is Tikka actions, they're extremely precise and actually held to tighter tolerances than some customs.
Also Tikkas feed extremely well with the factory center feed mags, and they're about the only factory trigger that's worth keeping.

 

[bigbuckdj]

Custom = you pick out the individual components you want then having a gunsmith do the necessary machine work, stock work, action work, to assemble them.
Semi custom= Upgrading a factory rifle. Screwing a prefit barrel onto a factory action, upgrading the trigger, then bolting/ bedding it into a stock or chassis.

I have both. Accuracy is determined by the quality of components and the skill of the person assembling them. I have rifles built on older ( C prefix) trued 700 actions that are just as accurate as the ones built on “custom” (still mass produced) actions.

Thanks, so there is some room for error in screwing a pre fit barrel onto the action? Meaning a gunsmith assembling the prefix components will likely have a better result than a guy at his kitchen table?


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[bigbuckdj]

Yes the difference between a custom or semi custom build is the action, a trued 700 is not considered custom though.
When it comes to putting a rifle together the action is the one constant you're stuck with so it's never a bad idea to get a custom.

The one exception is Tikka actions, they're extremely precise and actually held to tighter tolerances than some customs.
Also Tikkas feed extremely well with the factory center feed mags, and they're about the only factory trigger that's worth keeping.

So the folks upgrading their tikkas are not ever “truing” the actions when they build them? They’re just buying a stock, barrel, bottom metal, etc. and assembling?


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[FLS]

Yes. There is a wide range of skill in gunsmiths as well. You can spend a lot of money chasing minor improvements in accuracy.
I wouldn’t assume your factory rifle will need an upgrade. I bought a Tikka CTR in . 223 to play with and shoot in some local tactical matches, with the idea of upgrading. It’s shoots great, more than accurate enough to compete with. I didnt like the factory stock so I put it in an XLR chassis. The chassis works better for the games I’m playing. That’s the only upgrade I’ve made. I did switch to accurate mags, since I can buy two for the price of one CTR mag.

 

[WRO]

Yes the difference between a custom or semi custom build is the action, a trued 700 is not considered custom though.
When it comes to putting a rifle together the action is the one constant you're stuck with so it's never a bad idea to get a custom.

Plus if you go to resell it, a custom action based rifle is worth way more than a 700.

Plus if you true a 700, add a m16 extractor, etc you're in custom territory cost wise.



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[gbflyer]

Thanks, so there is some room for error in screwing a pre fit barrel onto the action? Meaning a gunsmith assembling the prefix components will likely have a better result than a guy at his kitchen table?


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If you are doing any prefit, either shouldered or nut, you’ll need an action wrench and a barrel vise or a action wrench and a nut wrench. Now there are those that will get ‘er done in some red neck fashion (no disrespect, I are one too) but by and large that’s the accepted method. Also you’ll need a headspace gage in either case, a go-gage at a minimum, go and no-go is better. That can be rented. The moral to the story is that is isn’t financially sensible to buy these items for one project. Of course some people don’t mind laying out the cash and having the tools. But in this case it makes more sense to have a gunsmith assemble it. The bad news is, that many if not most of them make a huge production out of it, stringing you out for months for a :30 job. To be fair though, there are hidden obstacles, sometimes the stock doesn’t fit right or it doesn’t feed, etc. That can take time.

I do my own stuff including the machine work. I like the work and I hate waiting. I can have a new barrel in a week, a lot of times a reamer in the same if I don’t mind a rental. Stocks are a crap shoot, special orders are slow, or sometimes in stock or find one here on the slide in the classifieds.

Hope this helps. Every custom action and every Tikka action I have had in my shop cannot be improved with my skill set. The various barrel manufacturers are doing a better job than ever on prefits. If I weren’t so impatient, left handed, and keen on weird cartridges, I’d be getting prefits every time. In fact I have one ordered from X-Caliber right now.

 

[Flyrodr]

I've had a lot more experience with "custom" handguns than with custom rifles, but one thing you need to be sure and do. Make sure you and the smith are clear on expectations - - - about everything. Whether it's cosmetics, finish type, smooth/serrated trigger, etc. No detail is too small, if it's something that you have specific likes or dislikes about. Don't assume the smith can read your mind. And don't, if at all possible, keep contacting the smith with changes or questions about options, etc. As one friend/smith told me "If you're not sure what you want, maybe you're not quite ready to go full custom yet."

 

[Wrench]

Go look at a GAP and a tikka with a stock and a spout.....pay attention to the details.

 

[bigbuckdj]

If you are doing any prefit, either shouldered or nut, you’ll need an action wrench and a barrel vise or a action wrench and a nut wrench. Now there are those that will get ‘er done in some red neck fashion (no disrespect, I are one too) but by and large that’s the accepted method. Also you’ll need a headspace gage in either case, a go-gage at a minimum, go and no-go is better. That can be rented. The moral to the story is that is isn’t financially sensible to buy these items for one project. Of course some people don’t mind laying out the cash and having the tools. But in this case it makes more sense to have a gunsmith assemble it. The bad news is, that many if not most of them make a huge production out of it, stringing you out for months for a :30 job. To be fair though, there are hidden obstacles, sometimes the stock doesn’t fit right or it doesn’t feed, etc. That can take time.

I do my own stuff including the machine work. I like the work and I hate waiting. I can have a new barrel in a week, a lot of times a reamer in the same if I don’t mind a rental. Stocks are a crap shoot, special orders are slow, or sometimes in stock or find one here on the slide in the classifieds.

Hope this helps. Every custom action and every Tikka action I have had in my shop cannot be improved with my skill set. The various barrel manufacturers are doing a better job than ever on prefits. If I weren’t so impatient, left handed, and keen on weird cartridges, I’d be getting prefits every time. In fact I have one ordered from X-Caliber right now.

This was really helpful, thanks. So it sounds like you’re getting minor improvements if any by getting a premium custom action over a tikka. And the cost of truing a 700 action will probably put you in the cost of a better action.

I’m not sure if this is true for everyone else’s location but it seems like a full custom is not much more in cost than a tikka plus prefit components, the difference seems to be that the tikka may be lighter when completed. The light full customs seem to get expensive quickly.


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[LuvDog]

In my opinion there are 3 ways to go

Rem 700 action… if you already have one or can source one for a good price… less than $400. Then go with a remage barrel and enjoy. Don’t spend the extra money on trueing/blueprinting unless you know you’re keeping it and want to squeeze everything out of it. When you start putting that extra money in to it, then you should have just gone with a custom action to begin with

second is to get a Tikka for a good price. Complete rifle $750 or less. Sell off the barrel if you can. Then get a good shouldered prefit

last is to just go with a custom action and barrel to begin with if you can’t get the others for good prices

 

[Lawnboi]

Your talking basically two options.

-A factory action, with aftermarket parts and possibly a new barrel. What your calling semi custom.

-A custom action build from the action up.

Any smith that can make a good custom can rebarrel something like a tikka into something you want. They don’t need to and I’d caution you using anyone selling a ‘package’.

Imo a custom is a waste of money unless you know what you want. Grab a barreled action in whatever you want, put it in a good stock, with a good scope and by the time you shoot out that barrel you will know what you want. That or buy one of the budget premium rifles and have at it, again by the time you burn the barrel you will know what you want in a rifle.

There are many options for a reason, people prefer different things. Only way your going to find out what you like is to get something and start making it go boom.

 

[bigbuckdj]

Thanks everyone, I think I’m going to either get a bone stock tikka and add to it as I want to or go full custom. It seems like you can easily equal or surpass the cost of a custom with a nickel and diming semi custom. And then when you get done, you have no recourse if it doesn’t shoot the way you want. At least if you buy a custom, you can drive to the smith and see what’s up with it. Im sure I’ll change my mind every couple hours before I actually decide


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[stan5677]

Thanks everyone, I think I’m going to either get a bone stock tikka and add to it as I want to or go full custom. It seems like you can easily equal or surpass the cost of a custom with a nickel and diming semi custom. And then when you get done, you have no recourse if it doesn’t shoot the way you want. At least if you buy a custom, you can drive to the smith and see what’s up with it. Im sure I’ll change my mind every couple hours before I actually decide


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I was in your boat and ultimately decided to go full custom

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[doggone]

Bigbuck
Looks like you've received some good feedback here! For me its like the racing people say..."Speed costs money...how fast do you want to go". If you want the absolute smallest groups, you'll have to go full custom.
But have said that, one thing I learned a while ago, the barrel is really where the accuracy comes from no matter what action you have.
Enjoy the rabbit hole.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

In the same boat... My local smith does good work and builds/sells 100% custom rifles. Base model starts at $2550. All of his rifles are fully blueprinted with rem 700 actions. He said there are a zillion guys selling aftermarket parts for the 700, so availability is the driver. I asked him about Tikka and he just doesn't see many of them, and the parts are far less available.

I've been looking for used donor rifles to rebarrrel to blunt some of the costs. However, the used rifle market is stupid dumb. Guys selling "well worn" 700 BDL with wood/ebony stocks and over "100,000 miles" on them for $800 starting bid on GB. For that I can get a brand new Tikka, and since I'm planning to rebarrel anyways, you're no money ahead on a donor.

 

[fisherman983]

This was really helpful, thanks. So it sounds like you’re getting minor improvements if any by getting a premium custom action over a tikka. And the cost of truing a 700 action will probably put you in the cost of a better action.

I’m not sure if this is true for everyone else’s location but it seems like a full custom is not much more in cost than a tikka plus prefit components, the difference seems to be that the tikka may be lighter when completed. The light full customs seem to get expensive quickly.


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If you already own a Tikka or 700 action, it's much cheaper to use it then buy a custom.

Trueing a 700 action from a rifle you have sitting in the closet is pretty easy to do compared to spending 1500 on a custom.

My first custom was a trued 700 and I love it but I also love my terminus kratos lite

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