Curious why so many Xmas reticle’s if everyone dials

[RWT]

It may be the lack of sleep or still recovering from food poisoning on Monday. I am curious why are the long range scopes filled with such complicated, especially on the vertical axis, reticles if everyone is dialing in order to use the center cross hair? I can dial on certain bench rifles I use, however, for hunting rifles I do not dial and prefer to use the sub tensions to my comfortable limit of 500 yards. So why are the reticles so cluttered if any shot over 400 yards is being worked with a range finder and shooting calculator?

 

[Formidilosus]

It may be the lack of sleep or still recovering from food poisoning on Monday. I am curious why are the long range scopes filled with such complicated, especially on the vertical axis, reticles if everyone is dialing in order to use the center cross hair? I can dial on certain bench rifles I use, however, for hunting rifles I do not dial and prefer to use the sub tensions to my comfortable limit of 500 yards. So why are the reticles so cluttered if any shot over 400 yards is being worked with a range finder and shooting calculator?

Because Joe average has no idea what he’s doing. People want what they think the may do, not what they actually do.

 

[hereinaz]

I use it to measure misses and sometimes hold without dialing.

Most of the time I could use a basic reticle like the Leupold TMR.

 

[justinspicher]

I have often wondered about this as well. I went to a precision course where they really wanted the students to use the holdover, because it was faster, not necessarily more accurate. I thought this was bass akwards to rational thinking.

 

[Macintosh]

Ive used holdovers shooting matches on prs stages that have a lot of moving back and forth between targets and a short time limit. I can often dial for one target so its in the center then hold for the rest and save myself the time of dialing 5 times during the stage.
My opinion is those reticles all suck for hunting though.

 

[jeffpg]

I started out shooting deer at longer ranges, 375 to 550 yards for example, with a Leupold varmint hunter reticle on a 7mm Rem Mag shooting Hornady 139 grain SST Heavy Mag ammo. It was later renamed Superformance. With a 200 yard zero, the horizontal holdover hairs were dead on at 300, 400, 500, etc.
I took a lot of game with that set up out to 600 yards before I began dialing a few years later. I'm pretty much a gun nut, with over a dozen custom built long range hunting rifles in various cartridges from 7mm Rem Mag, 280 Nosler, 6.5 PRC, 7PRC, 300 WSM, 300 RUM, 300 PRC. I utilize a variety of rifle scopes on these guns and a couple of them have Leupold scopes that are set up to dial AND have a Boone & Crockett reticle for fast target acquisition when needed. I realize that these "busy" reticles confuse some folks but I'm not one of them. I guess I have used them so often for so long that I'm used to them. To me, they are not a hindrance but an asset that can make the difference in rushed situations. I have a nice target range in my back yard, but I am more of a hunter than a shooter. I enjoy shooting but for me it's all in preparation for the hunt.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[amassi]

I’ll take PRS for 800 Alex


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[mike464]

If you are shooting multiple targets, shooting holdovers is tremendously faster, especially with a spotter giving you your comeups and wind. Not as important for hunting but will win in a match or 2 way range. If you shoot the Horus style reticles enough they no longer appear cluttered.

 

[Weldor]

Interesting.

 

[Rock-o]

Because sometimes I want to dial. Because sometimes I want to hold. The crazy part, I've even dialed and held simultaneously.

 

[Beetroot]

The better question is who would buy a 7-35 ATACR with a MIL-XT reticle and capped turrets? Almost no one.

Dialing for elevation and holding for wind is always my preference but for hunting or shooting matches there are times where you don't have time to dial.

Personally I don't like trying to hold more than about 4mils of hold over, the first 4mils around the centre get a reasonable about of use from me.
I don't understand the reticles that have 20+ mils of Christmas tree. Maybe a few reticle options for ELR guys but they don't all need to be like that.

I think the more abbreviated tree reticles are the best compromise, something like the Bushnell G3 or Leupold PR2.

My favorite reticle for match used it the EBR-7C but I'd probably like it more if it were simplified a bit.

 

[Rich M]

I prefer a simple BDC reticle (3 or 4 points) - the Christmas tree and other versions with all the lines and such just confuse my old eyes.

 

[magtech]

Why? Crossbow is zeroed at 40 yards. I can dial up 34 moa from there, until it stops. To get to 90 yards I need to dial up 34 then hold another 50 moa. But the reticle only gives me 35. So I found if I hold halfway through the post below the reticle after that, I'm at 90.. Couldn't do it with just dialing or just a reticle for this application.

On a rifle... uhhhh what if I'm missing something by having a Xmas tree reticle.... cant miss it if I have it.... or ( make up your bs reason here)

Nice thing about a hash or Xmas tree reticle is being able to see how far off your misses are and adjusting for it... doing it on a duplex is much more difficult.

 

[Lawnboi]

I’ll take PRS for 800 Alex


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Even in prs. I see more going away from a tree. I did. The tree is useless and only makes spotting shots worse.

 

[JohnJohnson]

My favorite reticle for match used it the EBR-7C but I'd probably like it more if it were simplified a bit.

Thoughts on the EBR-7D that the Razor 6-36 has? It seems like a very slightly more simplified EBR-7C.

To the OP, because most companies seem to want their scope to be relevant to match use. Christmas tree reticles are something I tolerate because I like nice robust scopes but I can't say I'd choose to keep the christmas tree if there was an option to get rid of it in a scope I like.

 

[Beetroot]

Thoughts on the EBR-7D that the Razor 6-36 has? It seems like a very slightly more simplified EBR-7C.

To the OP, because most companies seem to want their scope to be relevant to match use. Christmas tree reticles are something I tolerate because I like nice robust scopes but I can't say I'd choose to keep the christmas tree if there was an option to get rid of it in a scope I like.

The one complaint I have with the 7c is the lack of .2mil hashes on the vertical stadia.
The 7d fixes that, so it's a fraction better than the 7c.

 

[RWT]

Maven may have corrected the reticle problem. I have an RS1 that I like and am curious if the new 1.2 survives the drop test

 

[Beetroot]

The Maven RS1.2 2.5-15x44 and Apex Hunter 3-15x44 would be an interesting comparison.

They both look to be going after the same market (loosely a 3-12 LRHS replacement).

 

[JakeM51]

Even in prs. I see more going away from a tree. I did. The tree is useless and only makes spotting shots worse.

I’m pretty sure the best PRS shooter in the world uses an H2CMR, for people that don’t know what that is, it’s just a thin crosshair with .2 mil markings on it.



Then there is the JTAC reticle that was specifically designed by PRS shooters.





I’ll be so glad when the Christmas tree phase is over, they are totally useless in 90% of situations and do absolutely nothing but clog up the FOV.
Just a nice crosshair with some good mil markings is perfect for 98% of shooting people do.

 

[Rich M]

I’m pretty sure the best PRS shooter in the world uses an H2CMR, for people that don’t know what that is, it’s just a thin crosshair with .2 mil markings on it.
View attachment 625827


Then there is the JTAC reticle that was specifically designed by PRS shooters.

View attachment 625829



I’ll be so glad when the Christmas tree phase is over, they are totally useless in 90% of situations and do absolutely nothing but clog up the FOV.
Just a nice crosshair with some good mil markings is perfect for 98% of shooting people do.

I only want a couple - 3 or 4 hash marks total - that thing make s me dizzy. The Xmas tree things are worse.

The shame of it all is that the better glass has more crap in there, the cheap glass that won't hold a zero has the simpler markings.