Curious on something. Hunting a unit bordering a draw unit

[Indian Summer]

How about make sure you drop the elk in it’s tracks so you don’t have to worry about it?

I’d hunt 5 yards from a property line or unit border.

 

[Hnthrdr]

While I agree with anchoring the animal it’s much easier said than done with a bow, even with super fatal shots, elk can make it a little ways before they crash

 

[Gerbdog]

"Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law" ... which is what i get when im speeding and i say "i didnt see the sign".

"Well decided to call a warden for the area around my cabin/ where I’m hunting this year and posed the question. He said, first off best to call them if you get in this situation, 2nd have solid evidence that you shot the bull in your unit ie pics, gps, blood trail, once you have that they will likely give you the go ahead to go after you bull."
- Thanks for calling Hnthrdr - cleared it up for me - most likely they're gonna tell you to go get your animal - document well as everyone has suggested.

I agree, your probably never going to see a warden where your hunting until you get to the trail head. That said, i've had a warden come bullshit with me at camp ... no joke... 7 miles in. He had access to a road that the public did not have access to due to the rules of that particular area (he can take motorized vehicles where i couldnt)

I dont care what people do, its their business, and if you sleep at night then your doing fine, and i wont be losing any sleep over what anyone else is doin, especially when it comes to hunting.

 

[Gapmaster]

I agree, your probably never going to see a warden where your hunting until you get to the trail head. That said, i've had a warden come bullshit with me at camp ... no joke... 7 miles in. He had access to a road that the public did not have access to due to the rules of that particular area (he can take motorized vehicles where i couldnt)

This is spot on, I had one drive in on an “admin” rd that we had hike up about 4 miles and thought we had it to ourselves. Don’t do something in the back country you wouldn’t do next to easy access just because you think you’re “way back” in there. Be ethical and honest.

 

[Gerbdog]

They are also trained and sneaky. It's their job to catch people doing stupid shit... like all law enforcement... just be honest and ethical. Save yourself the heartache. I learned to hunt growing up in NM from a gamewarden and he would point out ridges he liked to sit on where he knew hunters wouldnt see him but he could watch them hunting elk. No kidding.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

This happened to me with a buck in California years ago.

I shot a dandy in D3 which is basically an unlimited tag unit and he ran across the border into a coveted draw zone (X7a). I had seen him disappear in the woods 350 yards into X7a and thought I had heard a light crash or thrashing. I knew the exact tree he went in at but that was it. With not seeing him drop I was even more hesitant to push towards him and retrieve. I guessed he was dead, and it would have been easy to drop my pack, and with adrenalin, drag him back fast into D3 and nobody would have known. But then I thought, what if I had a bad arrow shot and he was wounded and bedded down in there, then I could push him further into X7a. I thought about dropping my pack, marking my spot on the garmin, and taking a super wide swoop and approach him to where he may push back into D3. Lots of dumb ideas...

After a long debate with myself, I used my Garmin to call the warden, he said he'd have someone out there within 6 hours and to not approach the deer. About 5 hours later 2 guys show up and have me explain the full story, showed them where I shot, the blood trail, and where he crossed into the draw zone.

I had seen him disappear in the woods 350 yards into X7a and thought I had heard a light crash or thrashing. I knew the exact tree he went in at but that was it. The warden told me to head on over to where he went in and they followed. He wasn't even 30 yards into the woods, DRT.

They thanked me for the call, I tagged him, and they helped me drag him back to D3 for gutting and cutting. They didn't even make me sign any sort of "field report" or even ask for my hunting license or ID, just wanted me to tag it.

Call the warden if in doubt.

 

[sndmn11]

Now I am curious, for those who would call the warden/wildlife officer to let them know you are not breaking the law.

Would/do you also call when you shoot an animal at dusk and then track/process/pack after legal hunting hours? What is the difference?

 

[go_deep]

To add another wrench... do you bring your weapon across the border? What if you get to the bull and he stands up?

Then you'd be hunting in a unit you don't have a tag for

 

[Gerbdog]

Now I am curious, for those who would call the warden/wildlife officer to let them know you are not breaking the law.

Would/do you also call when you shoot an animal at dusk and then track/process/pack after legal hunting hours? What is the difference?

My thought would be you better not have a light on your bow. Your gonna have to be a pretty amazing hunter to make a shot after dark and legal hunting hours. By the time actual , half hour after sunset, legal hours are done i can barely see anything. You dont have to be an amazing shot to take a shot in a unit your not supposed to be in if that makes sense.

 

[Bubblehide]

Now I am curious, for those who would call the warden/wildlife officer to let them know you are not breaking the law.

Would/do you also call when you shoot an animal at dusk and then track/process/pack after legal hunting hours? What is the difference?

Dusk is not a legal term, it's exceptionally vague and subject to varied interpretation. Nothing in the code keeps a person from recovering an animal after legal hunting hours, when shot during legal hunting hours; nor packing an animal after legal hunting hours. What helps establishing the animal was shot during legal hunting hours, in a legal, compliant with tag location is the documentation process, i.e., pictures and video.

The idea that you can't recover and pack an animal after hunting hours is (ridiculous) in direct opposition to the laws requiring one to take all edible meat and our wanton waste laws. I mean, during early season, and some years, much later, overnight temps alone can spoil meat if left overnight. As such, it is necessary to recover the animal, meat and transport it so it can be cooled.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Dusk is not a legal term, it's exceptionally vague and subject to varied interpretation. Nothing in the code keeps a person from recovering an animal after legal hunting hours, when shot during legal hunting hours; nor packing an animal after legal hunting hours. What helps establishing the animal was shot during legal hunting hours, in a legal, compliant with tag location is the documentation process, i.e., pictures and video.

The idea that you can't recover and pack an animal that crosses into another public unit to die is (ridiculous) in direct opposition to the laws requiring one to take all edible meat and our wanton waste laws. I mean, during early season, and some years, much later, overnight temps alone can spoil meat if left overnight. As such, it is necessary to recover the animal, meat and transport it so it can be cooled.

Changed up a few words. Thoughts?

 

[hobbes]

I have packed meat when it wasn't my animal, but that animal was still harvested legally. I suspect if it wasn't, everyone involved could be charged in some fashion. In CO can you just pick up roadkill? I don't know, in my state it still needs a tag. Once it's properly tagged, you can do what you want with it, like transfer possession.


It ain't harvested til your sitting on it. Just cause you shot it way over yonder don't mean that's actually where it was harvested. Otherwise you could go onto private to retrieve, or other places that don't allow hunting. Your tag allows you to hunt in that unit, once you cross into another unit, you don't have permission to hunt there.

That is not the same thing. You'd be violating private property rights and trespassing at that point. The simple act of crossing the property line is illegal without landowner permission.

 

[Bubblehide]

Changed up a few words. Thoughts?

You're missing the whole point: It is not illegal to recover, process nor pack out an animal after legal hunting hours, i.e., after 1/2 hour after sunset. As such, it is not illegal to be engaged in these activities at anytime during the night, wee hours of the morning, dark. What is illegal is shooting an animal after 1/2 hour after sunset. So lets say sunset is at 6:30 pm. and you shoot your animal at 7:00 pm, you stay where you are and watch the animal walk then stagger 100 yards and fall over. You use you range-finding binoculars in conjunction with your phones Basemap app and mark the location the animal fell. You wait 45 minutes and then walk to the dead animal, tag it and process it to pack out. You then pack the animal out to an awaiting ice-chest. In this scenario, no laws have been broken.

 

[sndmn11]

Dusk is not a legal term, it's exceptionally vague and subject to varied interpretation. Nothing in the code keeps a person from recovering an animal after legal hunting hours, when shot during legal hunting hours; nor packing an animal after legal hunting hours. What helps establishing the animal was shot during legal hunting hours, in a legal, compliant with tag location is the documentation process, i.e., pictures and video.

The idea that you can't recover and pack an animal after hunting hours is (ridiculous) in direct opposition to the laws requiring one to take all edible meat and our wanton waste laws. I mean, during early season, and some years, much later, overnight temps alone can spoil meat if left overnight. As such, it is necessary to recover the animal, meat and transport it so it can be cooled.

What "in the code" keeps a person from recovering an animal that crossed unit boundaries?

Why would the idea that NOT recovering an animal outside of legal hunting hours be "ridiculous", and recovering it be deemed "necessary", but that same attitude not apply to recovering an animal that walked across an imaginary unit boundary and died?

My thought would be you better not have a light on your bow. Your gonna have to be a pretty amazing hunter to make a shot after dark and legal hunting hours. By the time actual , half hour after sunset, legal hours are done i can barely see anything. You dont have to be an amazing shot to take a shot in a unit your not supposed to be in if that makes sense.

No, that doesn't make sense. The action of tracking/recovering/processing/packing an animal is the same whether it is day or night, just like it is the same whether it is in unit A/unit B. If the killing took place within legal hunting hours and the legal unit, what is the difference between the scenario of time and the scenario of location?

If you are calling law enforcement to let them know you did everything legal, but are now tracking/recovering/processing/packing outside your unit, why not also call when it is outside of legal hunting hours?

 

[ScreamingPotato]

You're missing the whole point: It is not illegal to recover, process nor pack out an animal after legal hunting hours, i.e., after 1/2 hour after sunset. As such, it is not illegal to be engaged in these activities at anytime during the night, wee hours of the morning, dark. What is illegal is shooting an animal after 1/2 hour after sunset. So lets say sunset is at 6:30 pm. and you shoot your animal at 7:00 pm, you stay where you are and watch the animal walk then stagger 100 yards and fall over. You use you range-finding binoculars in conjunction with your phones Basemap app and mark the location the animal fell. You wait 45 minutes and then walk to the dead animal, tag it and process it to pack out. You then pack the animal out to an awaiting ice-chest. In this scenario, no laws have been broken.

Your premise is that it's legal to recover after dark because the shot was legal at the time you let it fly. My premise is that it's legal to recover across a unit boundary (as long as it's publicly accessible) because the shot was legal at the time I let it fly. Also, if you can carry your weapon while recovering after dark then I should also be OK to carry my weapon across the boundary. I'm saying recovering is not hunting, if it were, then you'd be hunting after dark as well.

 

[Bubblehide]

I think some guys here are unsure what "hunting" actually means in relation to Fish and Wildlife laws.
Hunting means taking or attempting to take wildlife. Trapping is not considered hunting. Once the animal is dead, you are no longer hunting.

 

[Gerbdog]

Folks should do what they feel is right. I am not the moral police and i have no desire to be. Have proof you made the shot on the right side of the boundary or be prepared in some other way to prove your case if for some reason a game warden asks. The warden holds all the cards and im sure its a gray area in the regulations. They have broad powers as we all know when it comes to game meat and its location.

There is a phone call to a warden in this thread with a recommendation on what to do, and there is a story of a situation exactly as asked in the beginning of the thread and its outcome. Worked well calling the Warden. Probably a dozen others that didnt call the warden had it work fine too that wont talk about it.

Do what you feel is right and dont let anyone tell you it isnt right (unless its the law enforcement and then have convincing evidence it is right haha)

 

[hobbes]

I recall an incident in Colorado in S32 sheep unit. The incident was described on Bowsite by the hunter if I recall correctly. Sheep can't be hunted within a 1/4 mile of I70 in S32. It's pretty much a steep incline uphill from I70 for at least a mile. The bowhunter shot a ewe on the legal side of the 1/4 mile but it ran downhill, naturally, and died within the 1/4 mile band. The hunter went to retrieve it and someone watching sheep saw it and was sure he'd illegally killed a sheep and called it in. Game wardens and sheriff deputies show up, hunter shows them the tag, shows them the blood trail, and they agree everything is legal. Hunter gets a congratulations and help packing his ewe off the mountain. There was no law broken by retrieving the downed game.

Not calling the warden is not a violation when what you are doing isn't illegal. If you feel it provides you more protection from accusations, fine, but retrieval of dead game on public accessible land isn't illegal unless the law specifically states that it is like in a National Park.

Packing your weapon with you may be questioned. Finishing the animal across the boundary will be a violation.

 

[Bubblehide]

Your premise is that it's legal to recover after dark because the shot was legal at the time you let it fly. My premise is that it's legal to recover across a unit boundary (as long as it's publicly accessible) because the shot was legal at the time I let it fly. Also, if you can carry your weapon while recovering after dark then I should also be OK to carry my weapon across the boundary. I'm saying recovering is not hunting, if it were, then you'd be hunting after dark as well.

Overall we are in agreement. However, if your hunting an area with other people hunting it, and your animal crosses a boundary, it is likely that other hunters will call F&W. I have suggested what I consider wise methods, so that if you do encounter F&W, you have evidence to dispel suspicion.

For example, if you were to cross a boundary to recover an animal, I recommended unloading your rifle (could be a bow) and removing the bolt and storing the ammunition and bolt in an inconvenient place in the pack, as evidence you are recovering and not hunting (which can be filmed). If you carry a loaded weapon into a zone you do not have a tag for, it is REASONABLE to PRESUME you are hunting. If the weapon is not loaded and the ammo, arows ... is not convenient to get and load, then it is NOT reasonable to ASSUME (not the use of presume and assume) one is in the act of hunting.

 

[BFR]

Been in this situation twice over my years of hunting. First when I started bow hunting, shot a buck through the liver, travelled over 300 yds and crossed a road that divided zones. Luckily, I guess, a game warden saw him cross and also saw blood on him. The buck walked about 40 yds passed the road and lay down. The warden was still there when I came up to the road following the blood trail. He got out and helped me get the deer then gave me a ride back to my Jeep. Naturally we talked during that time, his attitude about my situation was, had he not seen the deer cross but found me retrieving it I would have to show him where I shot from, he preferred to be called first then wait at the road and show him where blood trail crossed. The second was with my grandson hunting a WMA in Montana. We were next to an elk viewing area, no hunting zone. He shot a cow elk that managed to get over the boundary line before dropping. This area is a Fed. WMA with NO foot or vehicle traffic off the road. The elk was only 30 or so yards inside but had we tried to get it multiple people would have reported us. I got a Ranger to call the Federal Warden on his Sat phone and explained it to him. Took him a couple hours but he got there, first wanted to know where we shot from and how we got there, he was friendly not threatening just needed to establish that we didn’t cross the no access portion. We were able to show him from where me met since he was familiar with the area. We then got in his truck and he drove in as close to the elk as he could and we walked up the hill to where we were shooting, and where the elk was. After that he helped us get her out and loaded on my Jeep.

As for the retrieving after dark, I’ve shot deer within 5 minutes of end of shooting time and retrieved the animal if I know it’s down. No weapon except my knife and I’ll done within an hour or so. If I’m unsure or it’s going to take substantially longer I’ll wait until daylight. It’s safer and I can carry my weapon, no explanation necessary. But, that’s just my opinion and choice.