Critique my scouting plan for CO/1st rifle

[Chris in TN]

I've mentioned before - my daughter has a 1st rifle tag for the typical southern CO unit with unlimited 2nd/3rd rifle tags and a ton of bow/muzzleloader tags.

Our plan, at the moment, is to be breathing thin mountain air by Thursday morning and be 'on site' by Thursday night. Season opens the following Wednesday morning. This gives us Fri-Sat-Sun-Mon to scout, Tuesday to set up camp, then hunt all 5 days of 1st rifle if needed and if we don't tap out or tag out before it ends.

My plan is that as much as a day of this should be allowed for car troubles or other logistic issues (weather?) that could happen. We have a cabin to stay in during these scouting days, then plan to tent camp somewhere between 0 and 9 miles back (lol) during season. Realistically 1-4 miles.

Day one: My plan is to take a short (6? mile round trip) hike into an area that is both lower in elevation (10k') and, more importantly, pretty level. Very little up/down if we follow a particular ridge trail. This isn't in our 'plan A' area but it's a spot that allows us to stretch our legs, look at Plan B through glass, and not completely gas ourselves on day one. We have all day to do this 6 miles. If not for the elevation change I'd call this a leisure day. We do 6 milers here at home (flatter, but hot and with heavy packs) enough that we don't see it as a big deal. Of course, there's air down here (we live at 650'). lol. If we handle this day well, the rest of the week should be doable.

Day two - there's a named peak we'd like to climb. It's named but less than 13k'. And we don't even have to make the summit - we can bring the spotting scope and glass a ton along what seems to be a lesser-used trail and if we make it to even 12k we'll have plenty of spots to glass within our Plan A area. This would be a hike of perhaps 4-6 miles, but steep. The bulk of it is uphill from the car, so we can turn around if it feels like too much.

Day three - I'd like to hike in to our Plan A core area, about a 10 mile loop that would take us up the trail, past where I think I'd like to camp, through some spots I think we'd find elk (I mean two different days of hunting at least), then back to the car. This would be almost a 4000' elevation day. The first four miles would be a booger - about 2000' of gain - then the rest of the day is more moderate with just smaller hills and maybe a 500' to 700' uphill at the end of the day. Again, we'd have all day to do this and as it starts uphill, we can turn around at most points through the day if we feel overwhelmed and the car is downhill, more or less.

That leaves a day extra, and a day to set up camp and rest. Or an extra day to scrap all our plans and move across the county as I see the current weather, water, wind, and game or lack thereof. I have backup plans from 5-20+ miles away. I don't want to use them though, of course.

Plan C is pretty involved and anything we do within it involves a 5 mile hike just to get started and from there we could go another 2-5 miles depending on what option looked best. At this point I'm thinking that plan A and B have to be completely terrible looking for us to do plan C. Honestly, I'd prefer Plan C. I'm just trying not to overwhelm my 13 year old. But we could check it out on that 4th day. Problem is, if we do that, we have to turn around and come out then go right back in with camp/packs the next day.

We are hiking here at home, we did a hike last week on vacation with a significant elevation component, we don't have to bring heavy packs on scouting trips nor be in a hurry. What seems like a tortuous hike might not be so bad if we have all day to do it.

I 100% understand that weather factors or us being overwhelmed by the elevation (it's never been an issue in the past but I know it can happen) could cause a complete change to be needed. Or we may get there and see no elk sign. Or we may scout and have a blast for 4 days then watch as half of Texas shows up the night before season and sets up in our campsite. I can't control those things. I just want to know what to be expecting and how to make good use of the time I have.

The plan is to glass from distances where we can, get off hiking trails and walk the edges of certain meadows, and just get a feel for the area. We might even stay out late some nights and listen for bugles.

The point, in all of this, is to cover ground looking for elk and elk sign. (I also think I have found a spot where I could safely confirm zero on the rifle on some USFS land that is open and not really elk habitat).

With five days to scout before 1st rifle what should I do differently?

Also - let's say we find what appear to be two different areas being used by what we assume are two different groups of elk, and perhaps we don't think we've scented up or spooked them from, either spot. Do you plan your opening day hunt for just whichever area you think is least likely to be pressured by other people?

 

[Airohunter]

When I went to Colorado I E scouted it for roads, drainages, vantage points etc. I arrived a couple of days early, glassed and drove around most of the unit. Seen Bulls every day, found Bulls the night before opener and killed on the next morning. My point is until you get there and see the country try and remain flexible. A lot can change once your boots on the ground. Best of luck!!

 

[Deerhunter6250]

Don't wear yourself out before the hunt begins.

 

[Chris in TN]

Don't wear yourself out before the hunt begins.

Resting for a day is an option. It'll drive me nuts but if my daughter needs it, that's what we will do. I want to be out early at least 3 of those 5 days but it isn't set in stone. There's some private land I'd sort of like to drive past at daybreak at least once.

When I went to Colorado I E scouted it for roads, drainages, vantage points etc. I arrived a couple of days early, glassed and drove around most of the unit. Seen Bulls every day, found Bulls the night before opener and killed on the next morning. My point is until you get there and see the country try and remain flexible. A lot can change once your boots on the ground. Best of luck!!

Was that in a unit with OTC 2nd/3rd tags? Did you focus on a smaller part of the unit or did you circle the whole area? Was it a smaller unit?

 

[Poser]

I like the plan of getting there 6 days before the season -plenty of time to acclimate and do some scouting. That being said, remember that in the mountains, everything is further, steeper and takes longer to get to then you anticipate. I'd err on keeping those scouting days mellow to avoid ending up in a position where you're doing a lot of hiking for 10 days straight.

As for your question about deciding which sign to hunt, yes, I would try to anticipate which area would be less likely to have hunters show up. That being said, there are guys who have been hunting these units for years, decades even, who may know these locations as perennial spots. Whichever spot you choose to hedge you opening day on, I'd study the map and try to anticipate how these elk that are leaving sign might respond to sudden pressure and have a plan to work your way there if you encounter other hunters with the same intentions.

 

[3forks]

I've mentioned before - my daughter has a 1st rifle tag for the typical southern CO unit with unlimited 2nd/3rd rifle tags and a ton of bow/muzzleloader tags.

Our plan, at the moment, is to be breathing thin mountain air by Thursday morning and be 'on site' by Thursday night. Season opens the following Wednesday morning. This gives us Fri-Sat-Sun-Mon to scout, Tuesday to set up camp, then hunt all 5 days of 1st rifle if needed and if we don't tap out or tag out before it ends.

My plan is that as much as a day of this should be allowed for car troubles or other logistic issues (weather?) that could happen. We have a cabin to stay in during these scouting days, then plan to tent camp somewhere between 0 and 9 miles back (lol) during season. Realistically 1-4 miles.

Day one: My plan is to take a short (6? mile round trip) hike into an area that is both lower in elevation (10k') and, more importantly, pretty level. Very little up/down if we follow a particular ridge trail. This isn't in our 'plan A' area but it's a spot that allows us to stretch our legs, look at Plan B through glass, and not completely gas ourselves on day one. We have all day to do this 6 miles. If not for the elevation change I'd call this a leisure day. We do 6 milers here at home (flatter, but hot and with heavy packs) enough that we don't see it as a big deal. Of course, there's air down here (we live at 650'). lol. If we handle this day well, the rest of the week should be doable.

Day two - there's a named peak we'd like to climb. It's named but less than 13k'. And we don't even have to make the summit - we can bring the spotting scope and glass a ton along what seems to be a lesser-used trail and if we make it to even 12k we'll have plenty of spots to glass within our Plan A area. This would be a hike of perhaps 4-6 miles, but steep. The bulk of it is uphill from the car, so we can turn around if it feels like too much.

Day three - I'd like to hike in to our Plan A core area, about a 10 mile loop that would take us up the trail, past where I think I'd like to camp, through some spots I think we'd find elk (I mean two different days of hunting at least), then back to the car. This would be almost a 4000' elevation day. The first four miles would be a booger - about 2000' of gain - then the rest of the day is more moderate with just smaller hills and maybe a 500' to 700' uphill at the end of the day. Again, we'd have all day to do this and as it starts uphill, we can turn around at most points through the day if we feel overwhelmed and the car is downhill, more or less.

That leaves a day extra, and a day to set up camp and rest. Or an extra day to scrap all our plans and move across the county as I see the current weather, water, wind, and game or lack thereof. I have backup plans from 5-20+ miles away. I don't want to use them though, of course.

Plan C is pretty involved and anything we do within it involves a 5 mile hike just to get started and from there we could go another 2-5 miles depending on what option looked best. At this point I'm thinking that plan A and B have to be completely terrible looking for us to do plan C. Honestly, I'd prefer Plan C. I'm just trying not to overwhelm my 13 year old. But we could check it out on that 4th day. Problem is, if we do that, we have to turn around and come out then go right back in with camp/packs the next day.

We are hiking here at home, we did a hike last week on vacation with a significant elevation component, we don't have to bring heavy packs on scouting trips nor be in a hurry. What seems like a tortuous hike might not be so bad if we have all day to do it.

I 100% understand that weather factors or us being overwhelmed by the elevation (it's never been an issue in the past but I know it can happen) could cause a complete change to be needed. Or we may get there and see no elk sign. Or we may scout and have a blast for 4 days then watch as half of Texas shows up the night before season and sets up in our campsite. I can't control those things. I just want to know what to be expecting and how to make good use of the time I have.

The plan is to glass from distances where we can, get off hiking trails and walk the edges of certain meadows, and just get a feel for the area. We might even stay out late some nights and listen for bugles.

The point, in all of this, is to cover ground looking for elk and elk sign. (I also think I have found a spot where I could safely confirm zero on the rifle on some USFS land that is open and not really elk habitat).

With five days to scout before 1st rifle what should I do differently?

Also - let's say we find what appear to be two different areas being used by what we assume are two different groups of elk, and perhaps we don't think we've scented up or spooked them from, either spot. Do you plan your opening day hunt for just whichever area you think is least likely to be pressured by other people?

I don’t want to come across as critical, but I’d suggest letting your daughter decide on the game plan based on how she does when she gets a day or two under her belt.

I understand you’ve put effort into figuring this hunt out so as to be successful, but your plans seem ambitious.

 

[Chris in TN]

I don’t want to come across as critical, but I’d suggest letting your daughter decide on the game plan based on how she does when she gets a day or two under her belt.

I understand you’ve put effort into figuring this hunt out so as to be successful, but your plans seem ambitious.

That doesn't sound critical at all. Her enjoying this is ultimately more important than killing an elk. Having said that....we had a lot of long talks before starting down this road, about how this would be the toughest thing she'd ever done and I would push her a long way before I'd let her quit and she had to be on board with that before we started spending money on the trip. We've done some hot-day hikes with packs this summer that *I* would have complained about at her age. No complaints yet.

 

[Chris in TN]

I like the plan of getting there 6 days before the season -plenty of time to acclimate and do some scouting. That being said, remember that in the mountains, everything is further, steeper and takes longer to get to then you anticipate. I'd err on keeping those scouting days mellow to avoid ending up in a position where you're doing a lot of hiking for 10 days straight.

As for your question about deciding which sign to hunt, yes, I would try to anticipate which area would be less likely to have hunters show up. That being said, there are guys who have been hunting these units for years, decades even, who may know these locations as perennial spots. Whichever spot you choose to hedge you opening day on, I'd study the map and try to anticipate how these elk that are leaving sign might respond to sudden pressure and have a plan to work your way there if you encounter other hunters with the same intentions.

Yeah. The other hunting pressure is undoubtedly the wild card here.

 

[Pafarm]

Sounds like you have a great plan. Just remember it’s all about the fun. Don’t overwork yourself before the tag starts and get burnt out/injured. Slow and steady you’ll have fun and fill a tag.

 

[hereinaz]

I would put more miles on the roads than boot leather. Quick hikes to vantage points.

Unless you know where they are historically, cover more total area and spend more time looking for where they are.

 

[Chris in TN]

I would put more miles on the roads than boot leather. Quick hikes to vantage points.

Unless you know where they are historically, cover more total area and spend more time looking for where they are.

I've never set eyes on this area before (I've been near it but not in it) but I'm expecting it to be pretty difficult to glass from the road or from most trails until you get several miles deep or high. The areas we are looking at contain a mix of wilderness, roadless, and more general lower elevation forest service ground, but none are really very glassable from the roads, that I can tell from here.

I have spent an embarrassing amount of time poring over the internet looking for blogs and youtube videos from hikers, etc, etc, for windows into what the unit will actually look like on the ground when we get there. On the one hand, I've found enough pictures and videos to think I have a grasp of what it looks like - on the other hand, I could have lumped all that time into one block and drove out there for 2-3 days.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

The bulls will likely respond to location bugles before the sun comes up in 1st season. You might not get much besides that

 

[Hnthrdr]

I would be sure to do some fun stuff with your daughter, hot springs trips to town etc… the two days that count are the two prior to the opener… I would stay far far away from those elk until opening morning. I have personally seen elk pick up and move out from too much snooping on them. Remember you won’t be the only one scouting early

 

[hereinaz]

I've never set eyes on this area before (I've been near it but not in it) but I'm expecting it to be pretty difficult to glass from the road or from most trails until you get several miles deep or high. The areas we are looking at contain a mix of wilderness, roadless, and more general lower elevation forest service ground, but none are really very glassable from the roads, that I can tell from here.

I have spent an embarrassing amount of time poring over the internet looking for blogs and youtube videos from hikers, etc, etc, for windows into what the unit will actually look like on the ground when we get there. On the one hand, I've found enough pictures and videos to think I have a grasp of what it looks like - on the other hand, I could have lumped all that time into one block and drove out there for 2-3 days.

You are putting in the work and asking good questions. I have done much the same for hunts, and then get to the ground and while I was close, I was off enough that my plans changed.

Be flexible, get high and drive a lot at least couple of days. Drive at night and early morning. Get on a point in the AM and evening and glass, glass, glass.

If you are making these long hikes, do them super early before the sun is up and hike out late. Nap during the afternoon. I would spike out for at least two days if I hiked in 6 miles scouring.

How much glassing have you done in the west?
Is it pine? Juniper? Oak?
Have you located all the water sources? Tanks?
Do you have a blind?

I have hunted southern CO second and third season, and seen lots of elk from vantage points a few hundred yards from the road.

 

[3forks]

I've never set eyes on this area before (I've been near it but not in it) but I'm expecting it to be pretty difficult to glass from the road or from most trails until you get several miles deep or high. The areas we are looking at contain a mix of wilderness, roadless, and more general lower elevation forest service ground, but none are really very glassable from the roads, that I can tell from here.

A point you may want to consider is that hiking in several miles to be able to glass for an elk or herd that you can see (and then potentially go after); will be at the expense of actively hunting elk that you are potentially/likely walking by in timber or a feature that they can’t be seen by you and other hunters.

I think one mistake hunters often make is traveling too fast through, or not actively hunting country that elk could be because a hunter wants to get to a place where the hunter wants the elk to be.

Remember that everyone likes to glass for elk, and will most likely be competing with you to hunt the same areas that are glassable.

 

[Bluumoon]

If it’s just you packing meat I’d stay within 2 miles of a road. Figure 5 loads out with a bull (don’t leave the neck meat). 5 x 4 miles =20 miles, 10 with a good load on your back. Google earth pro has a function that allows you to get a pretty good idea of the view from any given spot.

 

[Chris in TN]

A point you may want to consider is that hiking in several miles to be able to glass for an elk or herd that you can see (and then potentially go after); will be at the expense of actively hunting elk that you are potentially/likely walking by in timber or a feature that they can’t be seen by you and other hunters.

I think one mistake hunters often make is traveling too fast through, or not actively hunting country that elk could be because a hunter wants to get to a place where the hunter wants the elk to be.

Remember that everyone likes to glass for elk, and will most likely be competing with you to hunt the same areas that are glassable.

I'm trying to approach this with the attitude that once we get out of sight of the roads and trails they could be anywhere, and we'll look for sign as much or more than we'll look for actual elk, but I'll freely admit that a lot of that is easier said than done. There are a couple of spots we intend to hunt - maybe not our first day, but the second or third days - that are very close to the road. When we go on a several-mile hike the goal isn't to go in 5 miles then look for elk; the goal is to more or less look along the entire circuit. Certainly there are specific places I'd like to look and I'd like to find elk there, but we plan to look along the entire route.

I do that a lot in January here at home on public hunting land and have often found deer in January in places I could go back to the following season and find them again. Problem is, we only have a few days to do that, on this trip.

 

[Chris in TN]

If it’s just you packing meat I’d stay within 2 miles of a road. Figure 5 loads out with a bull (don’t leave the neck meat). 5 x 4 miles =20 miles, 10 with a good load on your back. Google earth pro has a function that allows you to get a pretty good idea of the view from any given spot.

Whether we debone and pack out, or pay a packer, will depend on weather and distance and terrain, of course, but it's something I have considered. I don't mind paying a packer at all.

 

[Chris in TN]

You are putting in the work and asking good questions. I have done much the same for hunts, and then get to the ground and while I was close, I was off enough that my plans changed.

Be flexible, get high and drive a lot at least couple of days. Drive at night and early morning. Get on a point in the AM and evening and glass, glass, glass.

If you are making these long hikes, do them super early before the sun is up and hike out late. Nap during the afternoon. I would spike out for at least two days if I hiked in 6 miles scouring.

How much glassing have you done in the west?
Is it pine? Juniper? Oak?
Have you located all the water sources? Tanks?
Do you have a blind?

I have hunted southern CO second and third season, and seen lots of elk from vantage points a few hundred yards from the road.

Almost everything we are looking at is 10k to 12k+ in elevation, with a couple of exceptions. Mostly dead spruce and aspen. Very little oak brush that I can tell. I do think I have located every obvious water source; I'm sure there will be smaller springs and wallows scattered about too. No water tanks that I have found, and we won't carry a blind. I'm pretty comfy hunting on the ground sitting on a bluff or hill or even leaned against a tree, whatever is available.

I have glassed a bit, but I have never glassed much while actually hunting elk. I've shot 3 elk and spotted them with naked eye before glass, all 3 times. None of them were in glassable spots; one was eastern plains bedded on an open mesa(eta: I guess that was glassable but I saw her head sticking up because she was skylined from half a mile away), one was moving down a timbered slope and walked across an opening about the size of my living room, one was feeding in a meadow when we got there at daybreak. I'm comfortable glassing, but I've never *killed* anything doing it.


And, again, that's why I'm posting in here. I realize that a lot of what we do this fall will have to sort of come together on the fly, but I figure that's more likely if I'm thinking through all the different what-ifs now.

 

[Chris in TN]

I would be sure to do some fun stuff with your daughter, hot springs trips to town etc… the two days that count are the two prior to the opener… I would stay far far away from those elk until opening morning. I have personally seen elk pick up and move out from too much snooping on them. Remember you won’t be the only one scouting early

Hot springs? Man, the cabin has running water and I assume it's hot.

I'm not opposed to a leisure/touristy/rest day *if* we have a solid hunting plan after the first couple days of scouting. But, again, I went to great pains to be sure she understood what she was signing up for. I honestly think she's going to be OK without a lot of pampering.

The problem with staying far away from elk until season opens is that there's no way to really know they exist without getting sorta close to them. I'm willing to risk bumping them for the chance to know they actually exist. It's a dilemma, I'll admit, but outside of having a giant block of private land to hunt or having a decade of experience on a particular spot of public land, I don't see a better way through it than to scout on foot and when we see elk or find sign, get out of there.