Creatine use going into a hunt/season

[cwitt]

Curious what everyone’s thoughts are with creatine as a hunt or the season approaches. Do you take it up until leaving for your hunt? Do you pack it with you and take it through the hunt? Do you stop taking it a few weeks out from a hunt?

What other supplements do you guys add in or stop as the season gets closer/starts?

 

[Matt5266]

I take everything up until I leave. I dont pack my supplements/ vitamins. I could, I just havnt. I've been fine

 

[AntelopeEater]

If you eat enough meat taking creatine supplements does nothing for you.

As a general rule, all over the counter supplements are snake oil at best.

Stuff that actually works either gets outlawed completely; or made into a controlled substance and you will need a doctor's prescription for it.

 

[Poser]

If you eat enough meat taking creatine supplements does nothing for you.

As a general rule, all over the counter supplements are snake oil at best.

Stuff that actually works either gets outlawed completely; or made into a controlled substance and you will need a doctor's prescription for it.

Creatine is the most studied supplement that exists and it does work for much of the population, though not everyone. Yes, you can eat enough red meat to not have to supplement, but most people aren't eating that much meat.

 

[Poser]

In the past, I've come off it while out on hunts though, last year, I started mixing a daily smoothie in the backcountry to get more calories and protein. I used the Green Belly meals "Mud Meals" mix as a baseline and filled it out a bit more with more protein powder, creatine, beat and pomegranate powder, so I stayed on it. Its not necessary, I wouldn't go way out of my way to continue supplementing it, and you won't even fully cycle off it it in 7-10 days. So, I would say its a personal preference. You're unlikely to gain any performance aspects in the backcountry, but there is something to be said for the cognitive benefits.

I continue to take daily fish oil, turmeric, magnesium, vitamin D and zinc as well. -doesn't seem like a big deal to carry it with me, its part of my daily routine, so I just stay on it.

 

[taskswap]

It won't cause any harm, but it's not necessary to pack it. Creatine is stored naturally in your body as an instant/local source of energy to your muscle fibers. When you start working out, it gets consumed first. If you happen to be maxed-out on it ("full tank" so to speak) you get a bit more out of the workout than you would otherwise. But it gets used up quickly - literally in minutes. Taking it out in the field isn't going to be a long-term boost like caffeine or other things do.

 

[Andouille]

If you eat enough meat taking creatine supplements does nothing for you.

As a general rule, all over the counter supplements are snake oil at best.

Stuff that actually works either gets outlawed completely; or made into a controlled substance and you will need a doctor's prescription for it.

I suggest you look up the creatine content of red meat, and consider the amount of meat required to equal the minimum effective dose of creatine shown by studies to enhance physical performance and cognition. You will be surprised. Nobody can eat several pounds of meat per day.

On what do you base your "general rule" regarding supplements? Is this categorical opinion based on your feelings, or have you considered data from human randomized control trials, of which there are a multitude showing consensus on several suppelwmts like creatine and omega 3 oils?

I'm asking these questions not as an attack on your opinion, but rather to engage in discussion about the value of creatine as demonstrated by modern studies and data. If you don't believe in the study data, or have data showing that creatine doesn't provide a benefit, then others should be aware before taking your word on face value.

 

[cwitt]

Appreciate everybody’s feedback. My personal strategy has always been to taper off in the weeks/month leading up to a hunt because of the few pounds of extra water weight I drop and my tendency to cramp when not consuming a ton of water. But I’ve also read research on some benefits for endurance athletes so I was curious what others were doing as it pertains to extended backpack hunts. Maybe something I play around with this fall.

 

[V2Pnutrition]

Curious what everyone’s thoughts are with creatine as a hunt or the season approaches. Do you take it up until leaving for your hunt? Do you pack it with you and take it through the hunt? Do you stop taking it a few weeks out from a hunt?

What other supplements do you guys add in or stop as the season gets closer/starts?

Lots of variability here from person-to-person and based on their perceived benefit. For what I'm about to say, you'll have 100 guys say "Not true! I feel like a new person with it! It makes or breaks my hunt!" and others chime in and say "I didn't notice squat for a difference...". So, lean towards whatever direction you want based on that.

Do you need it? Probably not until you're (1) doing alot of short-burst, high-intensity pushes (2)throwing a bunch of weight around with rests between "sets" (3) looking to hold alot of water in the muscle or (4) considering the newly-founded potential cognitive benefits.

We do have endogenous stores in the muscle (about 1g) and extra from food will generally add to those (another 1....ish...grams). It is widely studied as many folks have said with virtually zero ill side-effects. Contrary to that, we've also found many folks (~70%) aren't responders/moderate responders (45% moderate/27% non-). The folks that DO show most benefit are...ironically...those who do not eat meat or have a regular creatine intake (not ironic).

Do with that what you like, OP, and have a great season- creatine or none.

 

[LostArra]

Depending on your physician you may have some discussion about your blood work after taking creatine.

 

[homers]

Threads like this remind me not to take medical advice from people on forums.

 

[cwitt]

Threads like this remind me not to take medical advice from people on forums.

Exactly I didn’t start this thread to ask for opinions on creatine overall, if I should or shouldn’t take it, or any of the science related to how it affects the general population. I don’t come here for that information and neither should anybody else. I was just asking those who use it, how they implement it into their own routines for a specific and unique use case that many of us here happen to have in common .

I find it funny how contradictory the reactions of people are when it comes to things like health and nutrition versus gear on this forum. How many people on here are willing to spend thousands to cut ounces from their packs but balk at the thought of trying or using a supplement for increasing our physical performance — even if it is incremental. We discuss the pros and cons of every conceivable piece of equipment based off our own use but you bring up a widely researched supplement and suddenly people with no experience start to tell you exactly how to live your life.

 

[Andouille]

Exactly I didn’t start this thread to ask for opinions on creatine overall, if I should or shouldn’t take it, or any of the science related to how it affects the general population.

Good point, and I didn't mean to derail the conversation.

I take 5g creatine on a normal day based on what I consider substantial evidence that creatine improves muscle output, reduces muscle fatigue, and improves cognition and sleep in most people. Because creatine is rapidly consumed and is a very transient compound (even moreso than body fat), I step up dosing when doing hard, long-duration exercise or when fatigued. My rule of thumb is 5-10g extra creatine for a whole day of backcountry hunting based on studies I have seen recommending >20g/day for top level athletes (with potential side effect of gut irritation). Anecdotally, I would say that creatine has likely increased my endurance and reduced muscle soreness during long backcountry hunts since I started taking it regularly 2 years ago.

An easy way to add creatine to your diet while hunting is to mix it with a hydration powder. I add a small scoop (4g) per liter of water and consume one to two while on the move, and possibly another 4g in the evening if I'm lacking sleep and physically spent. 4g dose several times a day doesn't cause me any gut irritation, but a whopping 20g at a time likely does.

If creatine provides even a single-digit improvement in muscle output and cognition (several studies suggest this range), then it would be one of the best bang-for-the-buck improvements one can make for their backcountry hunting or any high-intensity or endurance exercise. At only $20/lb, creatine sure beats the return on spending $1000s of dollars to save ounces on gear or buy the fancy new camo pattern that has no tangible benefit.

Even if creatine causes a few pounds of water retention (studies appear to show little to no significant retention), an increase in intracellular water is not a bad thing, as it may improve overall hydration and stimulate protein synthesis (suggested by two studies below). On a hunt, I would rather carry around a few pounds of total body water (intra- and extracellular) than "dead weight" fat.

A few studies from the Journal of International Society of Sports Nutrition on which I based my conclusions regarding creatine effects:
Common questions and misconceptions about creatine supplementation: what does the scientific evidence really show
Creatine Supplementation Increases Total Body Water Without Altering Fluid Distribution
Creatine supplementation and endurance performance: surges and sprints to win the race

And you can search the National Library of Medicine for studies on creatine's effects on sleep, cognition, brain health and concussion recovery, etc.

 

[Andouille]

Depending on your physician you may have some discussion about your blood work after taking creatine.

Indeed, creatine supplementation will show up as elevated serum creatinine which a doctor would flag on your blood test results. It's my understanding that there's no medical concerns with elevated creatinine resulting from supplementation causing liver or kidney issues. I've seen recommendations to stop creatine supplementation one week prior to a blood draw to allow a return to baseline creatinine levels.

How the use of creatine supplements can elevate serum creatinine in the absence of underlying kidney pathology

 

[Ramem7mm]

I take creatine daily however when I go on my backpack trips all I take is Wilderness Athlete BCAA/ Recover. I haven't noticed much difference without using the creatine though.

 

[Customweld]

I mix mine in with protein powder, measured out for each day I'm going to be gone. I don't do much backpack hunting, so the extra weight isn't an issue.

 

[TradLife406]

Last year I ordered some packets of creatine to throw in my pack. It's too good of supplement not to take with.

 

[K_pem]

Curious what everyone’s thoughts are with creatine as a hunt or the season approaches. Do you take it up until leaving for your hunt? Do you pack it with you and take it through the hunt? Do you stop taking it a few weeks out from a hunt?

What other supplements do you guys add in or stop as the season gets closer/starts?

OP to directly answer your question: Yes, I do add it into my daily supplement regimen by throwing 5g or so into my energy/focus drink mix.

This mix also contains a myriad of other performance enhancing supplements mostly focused around muscular endurance but also cognitive benefits and of course caffeine/energy. I also pack another bag or two of an electrolyte/cluster dextrin drink (similar to tailwind or something runners might drink but easier on the gut) and a daily multivitamin (as usually our intakes out there aren't all that micronutrient dense comparatively).

Do I think that I NEED these supplements to be successful? No, of course not; but they definitely help. I think if it's convenient for you and you feel inclined, bring it along; as previously mentioned, it has enough research behind it to be worthwhile. But I wouldn't stress it.

 

[K_pem]

It won't cause any harm, but it's not necessary to pack it. Creatine is stored naturally in your body as an instant/local source of energy to your muscle fibers. When you start working out, it gets consumed first. If you happen to be maxed-out on it ("full tank" so to speak) you get a bit more out of the workout than you would otherwise. But it gets used up quickly - literally in minutes. Taking it out in the field isn't going to be a long-term boost like caffeine or other things do.

Thats not exactly how that works but you're on the right track, utilization of the Creatine Phosphate energy system has more to do with energy requirements/production capacity and less to do with how much creatine is available. Your body doesn't transition away from using the creatine phosphate because you're depleted of it, it does so because that system isn't capable of providing enough ATP (adenosine triphosphate) to meet demands; which results in transition to glycolysis (breakdown of glycogen for energy) another form of anerobic metabolism.

You actually start out using stored ATP which in turn becomes ADP (or adenosine diphosphate), the creatine (actually stored as phosphocreatine) just acts as a phos donor to quickly reconvert that ADP back into ATP after its original group had been burnt, which is really only efficient enough for a short effort (like 10 seconds) before moving to your next form of energy production (glycolysis).

This process is ongoing and can start/stop multiple times in one effort depending on the demands at the time.

[NOT trying to mansplain anything, I just figure someone might find this interesting; Kyle @V2Pnutrition can correct me/fill in the gaps if i messed that up, its been awhile haha]

 

[V2Pnutrition]

[NOT trying to mansplain anything, I just figure someone might find this interesting; Kyle @V2Pnutrition can correct me/fill in the gaps if i messed that up, its been awhile haha]

You did better justice to the explanation that I would've- "a source of energy used during short-bursts of activity..."., ha!

You're both right. The OP apparently wasn't asking about details, but just looking to learn if folks take it or don't.

I think the other info provided can be great things to consider when other folks stumble on the thread from searching (sorry if it hijacked the thread, OP).

The ATP-PCr system gets "flipped on" for shorts bursts of needed energy. It is limited. The more of an internal store you have (via eating meat, supplementation, etc.), the more "performance" you're going to see during that type of activity. Low stores (lack of supplementation, non-meat eaters, non-responders, etc.) generally do not have as good performance in that type of activity.

With very little of that being done on a hunt (small burst of energy like you might need in a Metcon, sprint, or set of clean and jerks), there's not a big reason to think you "need" it.

But, as you've seen throughout this post, people have mixed opinions/observations/experiences with that. So, even if the "data" says otherwise, you should pack a pile of the stuff if you think it makes a difference for you.