Cow elk carcass claiming confusion & conflict

[CoMtnMike]

"The other scenario with your situation is what if those guys shot into the herd and dropped more animals than you all had tags for?"

This certainly was on my mind as we walked down the hill and made me feel a bit sick... That would be a worse situation than we had...

 

[freddyG]

Other than not shooting at all in that situation, head shots are your only friend.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Other than not shooting at all in that situation, head shots are your only friend.

Head shots from distance are a terrible idea. Too easy to blow off a jaw or somewhere else that will ensure a slow and painful death.

That close to the fence line, a high shoulder hit would have been a better option. Assuming they were using enough caliber there’s a very good chance it would anchor them right there.

 

[Broomd]

Mike, you sound like a good dude.

I can't imagine hunting an area with that much pressure. I'd rather hunt the ass end of Neptune with 2% chance of harvest than co-mingle with that many live rifles and inexperienced hunters. No way in hell!

It begs the question, "are we havin' fun yet?!" You were screwed there from the start.

 

[RCL]

Too many people for me.

 

[freddyG]

Head shots from distance are a terrible idea. Too easy to blow off a jaw or somewhere else that will ensure a slow and painful death.

That close to the fence line, a high shoulder hit would have been a better option. Assuming they were using enough caliber there’s a very good chance it would anchor them right there.

Well obviously the traditional shots didn’t work out well at all. I wouldn’t call 2 out of 3 elk lost a great success.

From his description, the shots were not that long, so I will stick with what I wrote. If one cannot hit an elk in the head from a couple of hundred yards away, with what sounded like an eternity to shoot, they need to go practice more.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Well obviously the traditional shots didn’t work out well at all. I wouldn’t call 2 out of 3 elk lost a great success.

From his description, the shots were not that long, so I will stick with what I wrote. If one cannot hit an elk in the head from a couple of hundred yards away, with what sounded like an eternity to shoot, they need to go practice more.

Hitting them in the head from a couple hundred yards isn’t easy. Hitting them in the brain is even harder. You’re talking about hitting a 4” target at 200-300 yards in the woods. From a bench, maybe but that’s just over Moa. Hell, lots of rifles won’t shoot moa in perfect conditions. Take a 20 year old Remington 700, propped on a pack, with an excited hunter which it sounds like might be a brand new hunter, and you tell me you think they’ll hit the brain at 200-300 yards

And 2 elk lost further proves my point. They obviously can’t hit them in the vitals, but you want them to shoot them in the brain? Lol, come on.

I’ll say it again. A head shot is a terrible idea at distance! You hit them in the nasal cavity if you’re 2-3” off, you hit them in the eyeball if you’re 1-2” off, you hit them in the jaw if you’re 2-3” low. All the will result in death, and possible a slow, painful starvation.

 

[freddyG]

Hitting them in the head from a couple hundred yards isn’t easy. Hitting them in the brain is even harder. You’re talking about hitting a 4” target at 200-300 yards in the woods. From a bench, maybe but that’s just over Moa. Hell, lots of rifles won’t shoot moa in perfect conditions. Take a 20 year old Remington 700, propped on a pack, with an excited hunter which it sounds like might be a brand new hunter, and you tell me you think they’ll hit the brain at 200-300 yards

And 2 elk lost further proves my point. They obviously can’t hit them in the vitals, but you want them to shoot them in the brain? Lol, come on.

I’ll say it again. A head shot is a terrible idea at distance! You hit them in the nasal cavity if you’re 2-3” off, you hit them in the eyeball if you’re 1-2” off, you hit them in the jaw if you’re 2-3” low. All the will result in death, and possible a slow, painful starvation.

From this post, it sounds like you have never hunted elk. I get an elk every year, have shot many in the head, and have lost zero in my life. I have seen other hunters lose well over 3 dozen elk with shots similar to the OP.

Elk are tough, a vitals hit can make them go for a long ways. Head/neck shots, not so much.

Like I said, if you cannot hit an elk head at a couple of hundred yards, you have no business hunting them. JMHO

 

[bsnedeker]

I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with 100% of what you just said. But that's JMHO also.

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[Ucsdryder]

From this post, it sounds like you have never hunted elk. I get an elk every year, have shot many in the head, and have lost zero in my life. I have seen other hunters lose well over 3 dozen elk with shots similar to the OP.

Elk are tough, a vitals hit can make them go for a long ways. Head/neck shots, not so much.

Like I said, if you cannot hit an elk head at a couple of hundred yards, you have no business hunting them. JMHO

The old saying comes into play here, “you can never change someone’s opinion on the Internet, even if it’s dumb!” And in the last 5 years I’ve killed 7 elk, bow and gun. The farthest has made it 100 yards. Most have been DRT. If you want pictures let me know, I always like posting up pictures of dead animals.

 

[freddyG]

I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with 100% of what you just said. But that's JMHO also.

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Not a problem. I guess I don’t understand how guys can spend thousands of dollars on elk hunting, yet not spend a couple of hundred on ammo, and becoming a proficient shot.

This is exactly the reason that so many elk get wounded/wasted.

 

[Bubblehide]

Hitting them in the head from a couple hundred yards isn’t easy. Hitting them in the brain is even harder. You’re talking about hitting a 4” target at 200-300 yards in the woods. From a bench, maybe but that’s just over Moa. Hell, lots of rifles won’t shoot moa in perfect conditions. Take a 20 year old Remington 700, propped on a pack, with an excited hunter which it sounds like might be a brand new hunter, and you tell me you think they’ll hit the brain at 200-300 yards

And 2 elk lost further proves my point. They obviously can’t hit them in the vitals, but you want them to shoot them in the brain? Lol, come on.

I’ll say it again. A head shot is a terrible idea at distance! You hit them in the nasal cavity if you’re 2-3” off, you hit them in the eyeball if you’re 1-2” off, you hit them in the jaw if you’re 2-3” low. All the will result in death, and possible a slow, painful starvation.

It depends on who is behind the trigger. If it is the average hunter, I fully agree. However, I make headshots (ear shots technically, so the lower brain) on a regular basis. I have yet to miss of screw one up. But again, the average hunter/shooter should not be attempting headshots.

As for the OP, I am with others here on this thread, I do not like to hunt around others, unless it is someone in my party and we are together.

 

[Ucsdryder]

It depends on who is behind the trigger. If it is the average hunter, I fully agree. However, I make headshots (ear shots technically, so the lower brain) on a regular basis. I have yet to miss of screw one up. But again, the average hunter/shooter should not be attempting headshots.

As for the OP, I am with others here on this thread, I do not like to hunt around others, unless it is someone in my party and we are together.

Completely agree with your statement. But we’re talking about the average hunter here, actually the guys that were shooting at the elk next to the OP. No different than the average joe shooting 1000 yards. Some guys can do it, most can’t.

 

[bsnedeker]

Not a problem. I guess I don’t understand how guys can spend thousands of dollars on elk hunting, yet not spend a couple of hundred on ammo, and becoming a proficient shot.

This is exactly the reason that so many elk get wounded/wasted.

I shoot all the time and spend a good amount on my reloading. I can hit sub moa out beyond 400 yards from quite a few shooting positions in a stationary target at the range. An elk is not a stationary target and I've never seen one on my range.

I'm glad that technique works for you but it is not something I would risk on any living critter beyond 50 yards. To each his own.

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[freddyG]

I shoot all the time and spend a good amount on my reloading. I can hit sub moa out beyond 400 yards from quite a few shooting positions in a stationary target at the range. An elk is not a stationary target and I've never seen one on my range.

I'm glad that technique works for you but it is not something I would risk on any living critter beyond 50 yards. To each his own.

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So you shoot elk at distance while they are running? I’m sure you don’t, so how is that different from a stationary target? Very confusing

 

[freddyG]

Completely agree with your statement. But we’re talking about the average hunter here, actually the guys that were shooting at the elk next to the OP. No different than the average joe shooting 1000 yards. Some guys can do it, most can’t.

Exactly, that’s why there are 2 elk just in this thread that are crow feed. Can you imagine how many elk are lost due to average hunter excuses?

 

[bsnedeker]

So you shoot elk at distance while they are running? I’m sure you don’t, so how is that different from a stationary target? Very confusing

Come on man...elk move their heads all over while they are standing still. Don't be obtuse.

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[freddyG]

Come on man...elk move their heads all over while they are standing still. Don't be obtuse.

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Wow. I guess I never expected such backlash and excuses over my post.

A wounded elk is a wounded elk. It really doesn’t matter where it’s hit. I my vast experience, it’s easier to have a clean miss shooting a head shot.

Furthermore, if I was in the OP’s or the other hunters that participated in this mess shoes, I would have risked a trespassing ticket instead of wasting an elk. After all, it would have been my fault for causing this rodeo in the first place.

 

[bsnedeker]

Wtf are you talking about? What excuses? I'm explaining why I aim for the vitals... that's it. I said very clearly that I'm glad that technique works for you. I'm not trying to tell you how to hunt. Do what you want.

You are the one saying that if you can't hit them in the head at 200 yards you shouldn't be hunting elk. I think that is an absurd statement but you are entitled to your opinion.

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[Laramie]

Head shots are a bad idea, on any big game animal, at any distance over extremely short range. Yes they can be extremely effective and lead to DRT shots. They can also lead to a badly wounded animal that won't stop running for miles, leading to a very slow death from starvation/lack of water. I have seen this several times on the mountain. The worst was a cow elk that had its lower jaw hanging down from a shot several days prior. It was very sad to see.

Neck shots can also be risky as you are counting on hitting the spine or artery. Miss either way a few inches and you have a nasty flesh wound and a wounded animal that may or may not expire from the wound.

A big game animal shot through the vitals (both lungs), with a good bullet from a caliber large enough for the animal being pursued, will lead to very quick death. This shot allows for the greatest margin of error. This has been tested from antelope to moose millions of times over. Animals travelling as far as the OP describes were not hit cleanly through the vitals, period.

There will be those that disagree with me and say they are that good of a shot - they wouldn't ever wound an animal taking a head or neck shot. I simply ask those people if they truly understand the effects of conditions on a bullet. Do they know that light wind, a simple barometric pressure change, or an elevation change, can all lead to a bullet impact being off several inches from zero at even 300 yards? Some things are out of the shooters control.

We owe it to the game that we pursue to allow the largest margin for error. Things can, and sometimes do go wrong. The best precision shooters in the world make mistakes. Why take an unnecessary gamble with an animals life?