Cost of Leases forcing people out west?

[Fitzwho]

Does your wife have a sister?

Nope. Only child.

 

[Grip_tony]

It’s definitely a factor. It doesn’t help that hunting public land has become fashionable. There a lot of people hunting just so that they can post a grip and grin with a public land geotag and get a few likes.

 

[Rifleman86]

My in-laws own a ranch in south Texas. It's a little over 3,000 acres. They lease it to a group of guys (5-6 dudes, tops). They pay $50,000 per year to lease it, plus spending thousands of dollars a month on protein, etc. They are pulling 170"+ low-fenced whitetails off the place. My wife will eventually own it and I won't be able to afford to not lease it at that rate.

Reading this makes me laugh out loud. I couldn’t imagine paying that much to hunt…

Then again I shot this guy 70 yards from my back door this year on my 20 acres here in Ohio. No food plots, no feeders, just a good piece of property that acts like a funnel during the rut.

It was noon, on a 60 degree day and I had only been sitting there for about an hr. I counted 21 points… Still need to get him scored.

Oh, did I mention it was my first sit all year, and I shot him sitting on on the ground without a blind?

 

[tb27688]

Something done here in the south and eastern part of the country as most of you know is leasing hunting land. I grew up paying $4-5 a acre for a track of land that gave me year around rights to. You then get a group of guys and form a hunting club and everyone pays $800.00-$1500.00 for a full year of use of the property to do almost anything with. However now a days the average is $15.00 and as high is $35.00 a acre. A good club ranges from $5,000-$10,000.00 a year.
Duck leases seem to be even worse.
So what I keep hearing is I’m done paying X I can go elk hunting, mule deer, whitetail hunting etc for what I’m paying here to maybe kill a ok deer.
This lead to a friendly debate last week of is this causing more hunters to head west whether self guided or guided. Or is it just grip n grins posted on the ol web.
Just curious what your thoughts are.

There are premium leases in Mississippi that go for as much as $75/acre

 

[Fitzwho]

Reading this makes me laugh out loud. I couldn’t imagine paying that much to hunt…

Then again I shot this guy 70 yards from my back door this year on my 20 acres here in Ohio. No food plots, no feeders, just a good piece of property that acts like a funnel during the rut.

It was noon, on a 60 degree day and I had only been sitting there for about an hr. I counted 21 points… Still need to get him scored.View attachment 373110

Oh, did I mention it was my first sit all year, and I shot him sitting on on the ground without a blind?

I obviously don’t disagree with you on the lunacy of what people will pay for leases. And that’s an incredible deer you killed in every aspect. Just for reference, this deer was killed down there this year. They killed a 30” wide 201” deer a few years ago that pictures circulated around the internet saying it was from Mississippi and all sorts of other places. In all those dumb emails that get forwarded and posted all over whitetail forums.

 

[awbowhunter]

In Georgia if you want good hunting its gonna cost you in a private lease. Price per acre has been driven up by demand.Out of state hunters from North and South Carolina and Florida add to the cost to lease. Public land in General is over run with people.

Started bow hunting Southern Illinois to get away from Georgia crowds, now its over run and lease prices outrageous.

I spent 8 years running a 3000 acre lease in GA. At a cost of $60k + a year plus all the work and babysitting grown men. I said if it ever turned to work and not fun I'd throw in the towel. Well it took 8 years. Never do that again.

Ironically a year later I got the opportunity to move to northern Colorado. Will now spread whitetail, mule deer, elk, antelope,, and turkey across 3 states here..

Public land crowding is going to be a real problem for western states in the not so far future. Population growth, and apparently population density redistribution will eventually effect western states as bad as the east coast except we will find access to hunting public lands much more difficult. Point creep in most states is a hint of what's to come i am afraid.

 

[awbowhunter]

Western resident hunters i have talked hunting with are surprised at the differences in hunting season structure when looking at some eastern states. Georgia last I purchased a resident license....I could buy a sportmans license for 60 dollars...that gives me a full 4 months straight deer season with 2 buck and 10 doe tags, fishing license, bear, and 3 turkeys in the spring.

Move to Colorado and I get a 5 day elk hunt on OTC unit with every Tom Dink and Harry....no offense Tom....lol Then if I am lucky I might get another week to hunt deer....none of this month or more long tags like many east coast states for deer.

Guys think this out and stay back east....pretty please...

 

[KoolBreeze]

My in-laws own a ranch in south Texas. It's a little over 3,000 acres. They lease it to a group of guys (5-6 dudes, tops). They pay $50,000 per year to lease it, plus spending thousands of dollars a month on protein, etc. They are pulling 170"+ low-fenced whitetails off the place. My wife will eventually own it and I won't be able to afford to not lease it at that rate.

Sounds like you'll be needing to work a "landowner" clause into the lease agreement.

 

[Wanttohuntmore]

Out here in western Washington, most of the private timber companies started charging for access. About $375 for 100,000 acres access, along with another 600 or so permitees.

 

[D_Dubya]

I obviously don’t disagree with you on the lunacy of what people will pay for leases. And that’s an incredible deer you killed in every aspect. Just for reference, this deer was killed down there this year. They killed a 30” wide 201” deer a few years ago that pictures circulated around the internet saying it was from Mississippi and all sorts of other places. In all those dumb emails that get forwarded and posted all over whitetail forums.

View attachment 373125

Ha! Small world, I hunt the other side of that ranch.

 

[bowieknife50]

No I'm saying the average man a couple generations ago just didn't have as much free time and disposable income to hunt as we do now. So back then there were more hunters that hunted less, now we have less hunters that hunt more. Speaking in terms of averages.

10-4 I'm with you now

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[MNGrouser]

It took 67 posts before someone (Awbowhunter) mentioned point creep. I think that is a big consideration for guys willing to lease. I'm fortunate in that my 40 acres in MN is enough for me to deer and bear hunt. But if I didn't have that, I'd have to strongly consider a lease. I prefer to hunt out west after getting my first taste of Montana mule deer about 5 years ago. But when tags are hard to come by, the cost of guaranteeing a hunt within a reasonable drive of your front door looks appealing. I planned my vacation last year thinking I'd be in Wyoming in October and Montana in November. Then Montana Fish and Game told me not to bother. I'll try again this year.

 

[fatlander]

Out here in western Washington, most of the private timber companies started charging for access. About $375 for 100,000 acres access, along with another 600 or so permitees.

You’re now in phase 2 of leasing land.

The next phase is the timber company realizing they’re only leasing that land for 2.25 dollars per acre. They’ll realize that people are willing to pay far more than that and before you know it, 15+ dollars an acre is in your future. At those prices, people get upset with the amount of traffic so they’ll block it off into smaller portions and hunt clubs will form.

The same thing happened here in the east. We’re just about 25 years ahead of you.


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[Wanttohuntmore]

You’re now in phase 2 of leasing land.

The next phase is the timber company realizing they’re only leasing that land for 2.25 dollars per acre. They’ll realize that people are willing to pay far more than that and before you know it, 15+ dollars an acre is in your future. At those prices, people get upset with the amount of traffic so they’ll block it off into smaller portions and hunt clubs will form.

The same thing happened here in the east. We’re just about 25 years ahead of you.


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What is different in Washington is the amount of public land versus private. There is only a certain amount people are willing to pay, if there are game to hunt. Right now that's dwindling in both private and public land.

 

[fatlander]

What is different in Washington is the amount of public land versus private. There is only a certain amount people are willing to pay, if there are game to hunt. Right now that's dwindling in both private and public land.

There’s always someone willing to pay. Guys quit along the way here, but once the money started flowing it doesn’t stop.

Phase 1, it’s free. Worst thing you have to do is go fill out a form. Phase 2, so cheap it’s basically free, but some guys quit on principal because they’re tight (where you are). Phase 3, it’s 15+ dollars an acre on the east coast. 30+ dollars an acre in the Midwest.


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[JjamesIII]

Something done here in the south and eastern part of the country as most of you know is leasing hunting land. I grew up paying $4-5 a acre for a track of land that gave me year around rights to. You then get a group of guys and form a hunting club and everyone pays $800.00-$1500.00 for a full year of use of the property to do almost anything with. However now a days the average is $15.00 and as high is $35.00 a acre. A good club ranges from $5,000-$10,000.00 a year.
Duck leases seem to be even worse.
So what I keep hearing is I’m done paying X I can go elk hunting, mule deer, whitetail hunting etc for what I’m paying here to maybe kill a ok deer.
This lead to a friendly debate last week of is this causing more hunters to head west whether self guided or guided. Or is it just grip n grins posted on the ol web.
Just curious what your thoughts are.

 

[JjamesIII]

What is different in Washington is the amount of public land versus private. There is only a certain amount people are willing to pay, if there are game to hunt. Right now that's dwindling in both private and public land.

Living in the Midwest, leases are ruining our sport. They always preach recruitment and retention are necessary for protecting our way of life. Just try knocking on a door to gain accesss in Ohio, good luck. Out of frustration, guys lease up farms. So now it’s a pay to play transaction. A new hunter, especially a kid, sure isn’t going to cough up several thousands of dollars to hunt.
Then you add so called “guides” locking up farms. They get one or two “clients”, then that farm’s lease is covered and the rest goes into their pockets. It’s gotten absolutely ridiculous. I don’t like the monetization of natural resources. Guides are for lazy people to find success through their check book. But again, unfortunately they are leasing up the private properties out east so if you want access, you might be forced to pay one (enjoy your five day season) . Except for remote Alaskan mountain ranges , or similar places, where safety is in question, paying a guy to hunt your animal is something I can’t get into.
If you morally object to the pay to play game, or can’t afford it, you’ll be stuck sharing marginal habita which is so over crowded. The quality of hunt is hardly worth the effort. You have to be pretty determined to continue to hunt public land in most of Ohio. A new guy isn’t going to stay in the sport very long before he takes up golfing. The experience on private property is generally exponentially better.
I come out west for the room to roam. Looking at maps comparing what I can hunt at home, compared to any given western state is night and day. Even Colorado crowds are of no comparison to what you’ll see on any given weekend on Ohio public wla’s. Our dnr sucks.

 

[IsThisHeaven]

The opposite for me. The cost increases of licensees and preference points for western hunting for me as a NR, along with point creep, has led me to my first lease in my home state. I leased 160 acres for about what it cost me to hunt mule deer and antelope in Wyoming last fall.

 

[downthepipe]

If you morally object to the pay to play game, or can’t afford it, you’ll be stuck sharing marginal habita which is so over crowded. The quality of hunt is hardly worth the effort. You have to be pretty determined to continue to hunt public land in most of Ohio. A new guy isn’t going to stay in the sport very long before he takes up golfing. The experience on private property is generally exponentially better.

Momma always said if you want nice things you better get a good job. Even golf - you better get a good job (or have the lucky pass) or you gonna be playin with shitty clubs your whole life and always gonna be hittin it 230 off the tee while the guys with money have a nice driver and hittin 300 yards. All joking aside the pay for play sucks and I count my blessings daily that I live in a public land western paradise.

 

[wildwilderness]

Financially, leasing makes plenty of sense. For example. Let’s say you want to buy your own land. Average price of 50 acres in my area is $300,000. You need 20% down to buy it. That’s 60k, monthly loan payment is $1900 for 20 years. Over the life of that loan you will pay $450,000 total.

Now, lease a piece of ground. Let’s say land is $25/acre. You lease 200 acres. That’s $5000/year. Split that with another friend and it’s only $2500 yr. So 1/11th of the yearly investment and you get 4x the amount of land.

You model is off- Down Payments on land are more like 30-35%. Just call FarmCredit