Consistently Inconsistent groups

[hereinaz]

I had a horrible range day yesterday. Took the 28 out for a shoot before a hunt I am doing next week. It shot "patterns" of 4-8". I was flustered! Took it out today. Did a half inch group at 100 and a 1.5" group at 200 perfectly centered on the bull. Its funny how some days a guy just cant shoot!

That's crazy. Glad it came together for you. There is certainly some work to do if not just mental.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I had a horrible range day yesterday. Took the 28 out for a shoot before a hunt I am doing next week. It shot "patterns" of 4-8". I was flustered! Took it out today. Did a half inch group at 100 and a 1.5" group at 200 perfectly centered on the bull. Its funny how some days a guy just cant shoot!

A little too much caffeine maybe?

 

[swampthing]

A little too much caffeine maybe?

Well maybe too much baileys with all that caffeine!!

 

[AK_Skeeter]

I had a horrible range day yesterday. Took the 28 out for a shoot before a hunt I am doing next week. It shot "patterns" of 4-8". I was flustered! Took it out today. Did a half inch group at 100 and a 1.5" group at 200 perfectly centered on the bull. Its funny how some days a guy just cant shoot!

I dry-fire 5 perfect follow thru before each live round. By perfect, the cross-hair is on the corner of a small black square and the reticle does not move from trigger squeeze thru follow through.

I also use a chronograph...was the velocity of a flyer different than those in the group...might be the hand load not the shooter. I mark any cases that are flyers with a magic marker and exclude them from future group shooting and use them as fouler rounds or to practice in field conditions.

Alternating between rifles also can indicate if it really is the rifle or shooter.
3-shot group with a rifle, then switch to the next rifle for a 3-shot group while he first rifle barrel cools.

Here is a good explanation of why soft recoil is better than a jet sled hard recoil:

 

[AZghost]

Lots of good advice on this thread, I would also think heat is the culprit.

 

[KsRancher]

I went out this weekend and shot a few rounds. No sled, just a blanket over a backpack. I should have elaborated a little more in my first post. On a 5 shot group, 3-4 will group good and 1-2 not good. Those are just an average. It's in no particular order which ones will group and which will stray. The worst group it shot this weekend was 4in, the best was 1.5in I only shot 4 groups(ammo is running short on my end). The 2nd group was the 4in group and the 1.5in group was the 3rd group. It was pretty cold out 35°, the barrel was always cold to the touch. Thinking it was me. I went in and got my Rem 700 shot a 5 shot group of 5/8in and decided to quite before I took the Ruger M77 and beat it on ground, stomped on and left it out there for a yard ornament. So now I am just going to keep trying different ammo brand/bullets and so on. Hopefully find something that works

 

[300 win mag]

start with your rings and bases and see if there all tight.could be a stock issue.could be you and a 4 lb trigger pull.could be a combo of things.

 

[hereinaz]

If you can shoot 5/8 groups, you should kkow if your form is the same.

Groups that big, your money is better spent on a new stock/barrel before you waste more of it on ammo. Either the barrel is bad, or something is off in the stock/action connection preventing repetition in the way it recoils.

If you are determined to try ammo, start with match ammo first.

Personally, I would sell the rifle and be done with it.

 

[rayporter]

four inches. time for a new zip code.

 

[Lawnboi]

I wouldn’t waste any more money or time personally. I’d be inclined to try a new scope then move it down the road

 

[hereinaz]

I wouldn’t waste any more money or time personally. I’d be inclined to try a new scope then move it down the road

Honestly, this is probably the best answer, cutting your losses. I don't think that rifle is a particularly good one to build off of and accurize. And, if the problem is in the action, it will be a waste to try to continue with it.

 

[eaglemountainman]

i like to know how a cold bore will perform.
i fire a shot or two at the same target each day for 3 or 4 days.

I have 3 Ruger 77 Ultralight tangers and 3 Kimber Montanas. With their soda straw barrels, I've finally come to terms with the fact that they are not bench guns. I'm sure others will check in how theirs shoot 5 shot 1/2" groups all day long. I have not had that experience with mine. I can state, however, that they all put the first cold shot, and the second, exactly where I'm aiming. That pleases me way more than a tight group at the bench, since they are, after all, hunting rifles. Since you don't state, you might have the standard sporter barrel on your rifle. But if it's a hunting rifle, my point is the same.

Having said that, if you feel that you need this rifle to consistently shoot tight groups at the bench, I do have a few suggestions. Either handload or buy and shoot ammo in every conceivable weight and shape until you find what the gun wants. Keep in mind, some barrels need 200-300 rounds put through them to relieve manufacturing stresses and settle down. After that, I would try bedding the action. If there is still no improvement, you could send the action out to be trued up and/or rebarreled.

 

[KsRancher]

Update. Was tinkering with the gun the evening. Had the stock off. Putting it back on like I have read is the proper way. Which is tighten the front lug bolt first and get it tight. Then put in the rear trigger guard screw. Then the front trigger guard screw. While putting in the rear trigger guard screw I noticed as I put it in that it drew the action and stock together ever so slightly. So I backed it off and the action and stock separated a little. I I loosened the front lug thinking I had it in a bind. But no matter how long I messed wit it I couldn't get the action and stock to fit perfectly. I hadnt noticed this before, but really never looked for it. Is this something could be causing the issue? I called a guy that said he could glass bed it for me. Does that sound like it would help this situation?

 

[hereinaz]

Update. Was tinkering with the gun the evening. Had the stock off. Putting it back on like I have read is the proper way. Which is tighten the front lug bolt first and get it tight. Then put in the rear trigger guard screw. Then the front trigger guard screw. While putting in the rear trigger guard screw I noticed as I put it in that it drew the action and stock together ever so slightly. So I backed it off and the action and stock separated a little. I I loosened the front lug thinking I had it in a bind. But no matter how long I messed wit it I couldn't get the action and stock to fit perfectly. I hadnt noticed this before, but really never looked for it. Is this something could be causing the issue? I called a guy that said he could glass bed it for me. Does that sound like it would help this situation?

Yes, if the action or stock are warped or bent into contact, it can easily cause issues. That is 100% why rifles are glass bed, to create perfect contact.

 

[ACKLEYFAN]

I had similar issues with y M77MKII in 300WM. Floated the barrel, bedded the action, read every post I could find re: tightening the actions screws and finally figured out what works for my rifle - front screw snug, rear screw snug, front screw TIGHT, rear screw TIGHT, center screw on front of the trigger guard, just barely snug - this screw has the most impact on my groups being consistent vs. OK with flyers. Try various amounts of torque on the center screw - as in very, very light and see how if affects your groups. I use a Wieg-A-Tinney scope rail, works great and very is solid.

 

[KsRancher]

Thanks. I dropped it off today at a guy in Wichita. He is going to bed it for me. Hopefully be good to go.

 

[KsRancher]

UPDATE. Got the gun bedded. Done a little shooting. Started off 175 Gold Metal Match. Shot 2in group, but they were scattered instead of a decent group with a flyer or 2. Loaded up some hand loads with 180gr SST and Varget. Loaded 5 rounds each of 4 different powder charges. All pretty much shot a nice scattered 6in group. YES, 6 INCHES!

 

[ACKLEYFAN]

UPDATE. Got the gun bedded. Done a little shooting. Started off 175 Gold Metal Match. Shot 2in group, but they were scattered instead of a decent group with a flyer or 2. Loaded up some hand loads with 180gr SST and Varget. Loaded 5 rounds each of 4 different powder charges. All pretty much shot a nice scattered 6in group. YES, 6 INCHES!

Dang it that's disappointing. Hopefully everyone is thinking through what may possibly be the cause - besides a bad bedding job. Wish I had a spare stock to loan you for testing - I have a Hogue LA Magnum profile as a spare that works well when I don't use original Zytel stock. I would ensure the scope and bases are good, the new bedding isn't causing the action to be tourqed out of shape and the screw holes are relieved. I would also run some 150 and 165 grain bullets through a nice clean barrel - copper and carbon fouling removed. I had to do some work to my trigger as it was set at 6lbs - it's now set to 3lbs, which helped my group shrink to sub-MOA. Its a challenge to troubleshoot without bieng able to see the rifle - hopefully outher members will chime in with some better tips.

 

[Rich M]

Consider putting up 5 separate small dots and shooting them one shot only, rather than a "group". There are also targets that have a clear aim point, but camouflage holes so you can't see the group till you walk up to it.

That will help eliminate mental errors.

I find I have a mental thing where I'll pull the last shot. Was shooting a fellow's Ruger Precision and had 2 in the same hole at 200, then pulled the last one out an inch. It wasn't the gun - it was me.

Shooting diff ranges in sequence helps me - I'll shoot the same targets but one after each other - shoot 100, 150, 200, 250 4 or 5 times in a row and see how it looks. Took my 100 yd from 1 inch down to 1/2 inch and I was already shooting an inch +/- at 250 on a good day, it stayed there.

If the gun shoots 3 tight, maybe stop there and let it cool, then shoot another 3 - same target. See what your 6 shot group does.

A lot of it is in our heads - for whatever reasons.

And we have good and bad days - @swampthing nailed that. I stop shooting when everything seems to be falling apart.

 

[tntrker]

Are you cleaning your barrel regularly? Try leaving it "dirty" and see if they will finally group after a box or so...Mine shoots better when I don't clean it. I only clean it when the shots start opening back up...