Considering selling my Swaro ATX and getting a Leupold GR 12-40...am I crazy?

[Wapiti151]

So, before we start...I obviously know nothing is going to top my Swaro when it comes to optical quality. This all comes down to how I use, and how often i use my spotter...and whether or not that use justifies a $3k package.

I run Maven 11x45 binos and find myself using those 90% of the time, either glassing traditionally or on my tripod. For me, I typically use my spotter to verify what I am seeing with the binos, or further investigate a tree that looks like a deer, etc. I know I'm not alone in using a spotter like this, but I just can't get comfortable enough with one eye closed in a spotter all day to really scan a lot of country for long periods of time.

I have the ATX and 65mm objective, as i don't need anything bigger but having something compact and packable is appealing to me.

So, that's the background. Going forward, I am considering selling that off to invest in other gear (better binos, new rifle, etc)...and getting a GOOD optic for the above use, but maybe not the best optic. This internal debate has gotten me to either a GR 12-40x60, or the Maven S2. The Kowa is obviously appealing to me, but again, idk if i'll get $1700 of use out of the thing.

Anyone have any experience with the two above options, or other middle of the road options in the $1000-ish range? Thanks!

 

[Tahoe1305]

I’ll start I guess.

I had the Kowa 554, leupold GR HD, and a Gen I Razor 65mm all together at one point.

I kept the Razor. I personally like the dual focus (vs barrel) like the kowas. You can also throw a swaro 25-50 eyepiece on it and it looks even better (and wider FOV). I personally have no issues with my 65mm Razor. It is lighter (48oz) then almost all other 65s as well.

Things I didn’t like about the Leupold that caused me to sell:

-Focus wheel was very stiff and hard to focus while spotting.
-Zoom was even stiffer. I had it for 3 years so thought it would get better and mine didn’t.
-It also had the reticle and it drove me nuts (probably won’t be a problem for you).
-the eye cup was flimsy and had to be replaced. Made it very difficult to digiscope

That said the eye relief was amazing and I thought the picture was great. Weight was great too at I believe 37oz or so.

Little Kowa was awesome but gave up too much in eye relief and FOV for my liking.

I am into my razor and eyepiece for a tad over $1100. It works for me and for the maybe 2 hunts and a solid week a year I spend behind it the price tag works too.

 

[Dioni A]

I think you'd be better off going to the kowa or even the ats. That will put considerably money in your pocket and leave you with good glass still.

 

[Wapiti151]

I’ll start I guess.

I had the Kowa 554, leupold GR HD, and a Gen I Razor 65mm all together at one point.

I kept the Razor. I personally like the dual focus (vs barrel) like the kowas. You can also throw a swaro 25-50 eyepiece on it and it looks even better (and wider FOV). I personally have no issues with my 65mm Razor. It is lighter (48oz) then almost all other 65s as well.

Things I didn’t like about the Leupold that caused me to sell:

-Focus wheel was very stiff and hard to focus while spotting.
-Zoom was even stiffer. I had it for 3 years so thought it would get better and mine didn’t.
-It also had the reticle and it drove me nuts (probably won’t be a problem for you).
-the eye cup was flimsy and had to be replaced. Made it very difficult to digiscope

That said the eye relief was amazing and I thought the picture was great. Weight was great too at I believe 37oz or so.

Little Kowa was awesome but gave up too much in eye relief and FOV for my liking.

I am into my razor and eyepiece for a tad over $1100. It works for me and for the maybe 2 hunts and a solid week a year I spend behind it the price tag works too.

Thanks for your feedback! I have heard good things about the Razor...never been a Vortex customer due to me just using Leupy's my whole life and never getting into them. I definitely would not get the reticle, but your feedback on the zoom/focus for the GR concerns me since I have read that on some other reviews and seen it talked about it videos as well. How is the eye relief on the Razor? I like the idea of the swaro eyepiece that you mentioned.

That $1000-$1400 is where I would like to land if I make the move. I feel like the market is full of good but not great options at that price point. I'd rather have great binos, and a good spotter.

 

[Tahoe1305]

Thanks for your feedback! I have heard good things about the Razor...never been a Vortex customer due to me just using Leupy's my whole life and never getting into them. I definitely would not get the reticle, but your feedback on the zoom/focus for the GR concerns me since I have read that on some other reviews and seen it talked about it videos as well. How is the eye relief on the Razor? I like the idea of the swaro eyepiece that you mentioned.

That $1000-$1400 is where I would like to land if I make the move. I feel like the market is full of good but not great options at that price point. I'd rather have great binos, and a good spotter.

Eye relief is not as good as GR but I would say on par with most 65/85mm spotters. I used a Kowa 773 and Razor relief was maybe a tad better with factory eyepiece.

The factory eyepiece has a slightly better eye relief than the swaro 25-50 but both are good.

There is a decent stream of them on here from ~$600.

I agree going to ATS May be a better compromise but still double cost (w/25-50)and maybe doesn’t meet intent. I’m confident I’d see everything with my spotter that an ATS user would with the exception of maybe counting sheep rings which I’d likely have a bigger spotter for anyway.

 

[Wapiti151]

Yeah the thought of the ATS bounced around my head for a bit until I came to the same conclusion you did....I am trying to tell if a buck is a buck, how big is the buck, and how nice the bull is. After hunting a season with my ATX I just don't know that I NEED Swaro glass in my spotter. Like you, if I had a sheep tag...I'd go get an 85.

Adding the Razor to my research list for sure.

 

[Tahoe1305]

Yeah the thought of the ATS bounced around my head for a bit until I came to the same conclusion you did....I am trying to tell if a buck is a buck, how big is the buck, and how nice the bull is. After hunting a season with my ATX I just don't know that I NEED Swaro glass in my spotter. Like you, if I had a sheep tag...I'd go get an 85.

Adding the Razor to my research list for sure.

To be clear I am not vouching for Gen II. Only Gen I. It is the only one that will take swaro eyepiece and only one I’ve looked through. I hear Gen II is just as good , some say better, but not sure.

 

[Maverick1]

So, before we start...I obviously know nothing is going to top my Swaro when it comes to optical quality. This all comes down to how I use, and how often i use my spotter...and whether or not that use justifies a $3k package.

I run Maven 11x45 binos and find myself using those 90% of the time, either glassing traditionally or on my tripod. For me, I typically use my spotter to verify what I am seeing with the binos, or further investigate a tree that looks like a deer, etc. I know I'm not alone in using a spotter like this, but I just can't get comfortable enough with one eye closed in a spotter all day to really scan a lot of country for long periods of time.

I have the ATX and 65mm objective, as i don't need anything bigger but having something compact and packable is appealing to me.

So, that's the background. Going forward, I am considering selling that off to invest in other gear (better binos, new rifle, etc)...and getting a GOOD optic for the above use, but maybe not the best optic. This internal debate has gotten me to either a GR 12-40x60, or the Maven S2. The Kowa is obviously appealing to me, but again, idk if i'll get $1700 of use out of the thing.

Anyone have any experience with the two above options, or other middle of the road options in the $1000-ish range? Thanks!

I think you already know the answer. If you don't USE the spotting scope on a regular basis, and there are other items you could purchase with that money - which you would use on a regular basis - then there's no real sense in having the most expensive spotting scope on the market. I don't think there's much debate that the Swaro spotter is in the alpha class of glass, but that matters little if you don't actually use it.

That being said, I acknowledge your dilemma:
1. Have a Swarovski spotting scope, continually asking yourself "why do I have this thing, which I don't use very often - I could use the money to buy other gear" - OR -
2. Have a less expensive spotting scope, continually thinking to yourself "I should probably upgrade my spotting scope, since there's nothing as good as the alpha glass."

LOL. Good luck.

 

[Wapiti151]

I think you already know the answer. If you don't USE the spotting scope on a regular basis, and there are other items you could purchase with that money - which you would use on a regular basis - then there's no real sense in having the most expensive spotting scope on the market. I don't think there's much debate that the Swaro spotter is in the alpha class of glass, but that matters little if you don't actually use it.

That being said, I acknowledge your dilemma:
1. Have a Swarovski spotting scope, continually asking yourself "why do I have this thing, which I don't use very often - I could use the money to buy other gear" - OR -
2. Have a less expensive spotting scope, continually thinking to yourself "I should probably upgrade my spotting scope, since there's nothing as good as the alpha glass."

LOL. Good luck.

Ha, yes! 3 years from now I’ll be looking at something wondering if I’d see it with the swaro and be pissed

 

[tdhanses]

If you watch the classifieds you can get a Kowa 55 for $13-1400. If you call a few rokslide sponsors you can get new for close to $1600, maybe less. Never pay retail when there is always the phone discount.

I wasn’t at all impressed with the Gen 1 razor I had, wasn’t great in low light and became grainy at the higher powers. The Kowa 55 is crystal clear to 48x, yes the fov is short, eye relief is personal but isn’t an issue for me with it. It is perfect for doing spot checks. During the hunting season the 55 is always in my pack while the 77 stays home.

Don’t forget a few other positives of the Kowa besides the optics, weight and bulk are vastly reduced, bulk maybe 50%. This allows for more room in your pack. Also you can use a lighter weight tripod setup with an optic that weighs less and is shorter, dropping your pack weight even more.

Maybe sell your 65 objective and later on get a larger one, get the 55 for hunting.

 

[Blockcaver]

I had a couple of Leupold 12-40x60 GR scopes. The later HD version was quite a bit better than the early version. However I moved to BC from CO and a Stone sheep hunt (every year) topped my list . I compared my Leupold GR-HD to a Swaro 20-60x65 HD on a sheep count one spring day. I couldn't count rings at 500 yds on a nice full curl Cali bighorn with the GR but could with the friend's Swaro. I went home and ordered a Swaro ATM 20-60x65 HD. I still have the scope 11 years later and am not looking to upgrade it. The magnesium case version weighs about 45 oz with the eyepiece. Don't use an auxiliary cover either as it is rubber armoured and holds up in the pack. Works good for digiscoping too, which I do a lot of on species with horn or antler point restrictions here.

With a phone scope you might get by with a 50 mm scope. I use a Nikon ED 50 HD, with the 13x30 zoom eyepiece. With the phone scope on it is decent but gave up on after one sheep and another caribou hunt for determining legality on those critters. It just doesn't compare favorably to the Swaro mentioned above despite being great to carry and a $600 (used) investment. I do use it for bears and to leave in the truck so I have it.

 

[switchbckxt]

Personal preferences are always going to matter in opinion posting but I’ll drop in my .02. I’ve never been happy with any vortex optics, same money buys better in almost every case. I would definitely steer clear of buying vortex for msrp(again, just mu opinion). Kowa/meopta is going to give you the best optical bang for your buck and customer service is good. Also consider, how well said optic holds value….for instance, maven optics (including spotters) just simply do not hold value. I sold a literally brand new pair of 15x56 mavens and was hardly able to break the 60% mark on value and that’s pretty bad for a brand new optic resale value. I’ve witnessed maven spotters sit on classifieds for a long time until sellers come down to the point ppl will finally buy them. If you have the funds I’d buy the gold ring or kowa and stack it beside your atx….then you’ll be able to see the difference. My gut tells me, it won’t matter enough to you based on what you have said…but at least then you will know. You may be fine with the difference, but you might say, “no way”

I had an atx85 and used it a couple times a year, had the same debate you are having with myself, sold it and bought a kowa 884 and used the extra 1k to buy other gear and I have not once regretted it. These two are very close optically tho, in fact, sexy factor aside, I think my kowa likely is better to the eye or at least the same…. Sounds to me as if you will get much better use from other gear for the same money. Just pick one ya think you’ll like and go for it! Good luck with the decision, you can always go back


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[Steve O]

Yes. You will regret it if you use your scope at all. Did a caribou hunt years ago where I had my Zeiss and partner had the Loopie. No comparison. Swaro is the same.

 

[bmanb940]

I have both Meopta spotters, the MeoStar S2 82 HD and the Award-winning MeoPro 80 HD. The MeoStar is definitely an amazing optic and for the $ many find it is hard to pony up an extra grand plus for a similar objective model in the Swaro. line. As stated above, the value you get from Meopta glass is hard to beat. The Meopta spotters are tough to find for a reason, they don't seem to last long with retailers once they arrive in the US. Meopta also offers a nice program for LE/Mil/First Responders too.

 

[ZackP]

There are generally Kowa 55’s on here from $1200-$1400. To me it sounds like it’s the perfect scope for your style of hunting (point and shoot after you’ve found an animal).

They compete closely with the ATS HD. As far as the GR goes I am not a fan, mostly based off the eyecup design and the stiffness of the focus etc as mentioned above.

Good luck.

 

[Wapiti151]

Thanks for the info, all! I found a nice GR 12-40x60 in the classifieds that is on the way. Keeping the Swaro in my back pocket and will test the GR. If I am not a fan you'll see a GR in the classified again, and back to the drawing board we go. I don't need to sell the swaro right away, so will hold onto it until I find what works best at the price point I am looking for.

 

[Super tag]

keep your Swarovski

 

[Wrench]

If I wanted to save some $$ I would go to a Nikon fieldscope ed with a fixed eyepiece or a pentax pf60/80. The nikon is seriously underrated.

 

[Grassymike]

Curious where the OP ended up ? How did the Loopie work for you ?

 

[Wapiti151]

Man, bringing back some memories! Well, I’ve been all over the optics map sense then…mainly because I love trying and testing new gear often. I did end up selling the ATX and got the GR spotter. That gr was awesome, eye relief is unmatched, optics were great for the money, very packable and a scope of be happy with if using for confirmation. Since then, I’ve sold that spotter and decided to try out a Kowa 77. And that was when project “find my perfect spotter” journey ended. I don’t see myself ever selling the Kowa after having it, and if I did it’d only be to get the 66 and 88 or 99. The Kowa to me, is much more pleasurable to view through than the swaro, and especially the GR. Is also roughly the same size as the ATX, but with a bigger objective. Since this original post I’ve also committed to glassing with a spotter, and now glad ALOT with it…key for me was to learn how to use the spotter with both eyes open. I now have no eye fatigue and can effectively use the spotter for as long as I’d like.