Communicating on a stalk: visual signal techniques

[TheCougar]

What system do you guys use for communicating on a stalk between stalker/spotter? I've always used radios, but in some places that isn't legal. Do you have a system of hand signals or other visual devices to communicate between the spotter and the stalker?

 

[mtnwrunner]

Well, we don't use radios as we don't think it is ethical or fair chase----just ain't for me.
So, whatever signals you choose, they have to be seen by the other guy who could be a long ways off. We keep it basic and have only 3 signals which pretty much cover the scenarios.
If the animal is still there or still bedded, the signal is arms out to the sides like an airplane. If they are up or moving, both arms straight up in the air. And if the animal is spooked or taken off, you get the arms waving as if a waveoff. Used these three for years and they work great and can be seen by the stalker.

Randy

 

[bohntr]

+1 on mtnwrunner's post regarding the ethical issue.

Rent or buy "How to Hunt Mule Deer in Open Country" with Larry D. Jones, Dave Doran, and Neil Summers. That videos goes through some hand signals that I still use to this day. It's also one of the best archery high-country mule deer videos ever made, IMO.

 

[TheCougar]

+1 on mtnwrunner's post regarding the ethical issue.

Rent or buy "How to Hunt Mule Deer in Open Country" with Larry D. Jones, Dave Doran, and Neil Summers. That videos goes through some hand signals that I still use to this day. It's also one of the best archery high-country mule deer videos ever made, IMO.

I just bought the video, thank you Roy. I'm probably about to derail my own thread, but why the ethical issues with radios? Of all the things I have considered to be ethically questionable in modern hunting (muzzleloaders with rifling and scopes, 4 guides to walk a paying hunter to a bull, shooting at animals at exceptionally long ranges), radios have not been something I have ever thought about. Where do you draw the line? I mean, we have GPS, satellite maps, trail cameras, horses and ATVs, etc... I've always done things the hard way: bowhunting DIY on public land on the soles of my boots and I'm not sure I consider radios to be an unfair advantage or taking the easy way out. Also, before you lay into me - I know both of you are much more experienced than I and I'm not trying to pick a fight, just trying to pick your brain! So, with that said, drop some knowledge bombs on me!

 

[JustHunt]

Im of the opinion that using radios is unethical as well. I grew up hunting Montana, where it's illegal to use them to try and take game. So I formed my opinion about radio use on my own because of the rules I was exposed to.

But in my mind, in hunting, I want to win one on one. Not one against two+technology.

 

[Bar]

Not much of a stalk if you're being guided.

 

[Dcrafton]

Well I don't believe it is fair to say it is unethical to use radios, I've hunted for over 30 years now with and with out radios. I fly fish and I know people that think it is unethical to use an indicator while nymphing, I varmint hunt and I know people that think it is unethical to use an electronic call and should only use hand calls. We could go on and on with examples. Just remember it is best to have options when hunting or what ever. Have hand signals that you and your hunting partner understand and perform with out a lot of movement but can be seen and understood from a great distance. The big animals don't get that way from being stupid, use the wind, cover, and shoot true. Take pictures to remember your hunt and the time spent. There are a bunch of great people here with many different views for one reason or another, just remember to be safe so you can hunt another day.

 

[Bar]

Well I don't believe it is fair to say it is unethical to use radios, I've hunted for over 30 years now with and with out radios. I fly fish and I know people that think it is unethical to use an indicator while nymphing, I varmint hunt and I know people that think it is unethical to use an electronic call and should only use hand calls. We could go on and on with examples. Just remember it is best to have options when hunting or what ever. Have hand signals that you and your hunting partner understand and perform with out a lot of movement but can be seen and understood from a great distance. The big animals don't get that way from being stupid, use the wind, cover, and shoot true. Take pictures to remember your hunt and the time spent. There are a bunch of great people here with many different views for one reason or another, just remember to be safe so you can hunt another day.

When a method is illigal in some states. It's a good bet that it's not fair chase and others will have strong opinions against it.

btw.....I use dry flies to fish.

 

[Dcrafton]

I agree, it is illegal in some states and you should have an understanding of the laws and methods available to you and I use drys when I can.


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[Bar]

Yes, but I use dry flies 100% of the time. I know, i'm a snob. I also still hunt 100% of the time. Oops! A double snob.

I'm working on being a triple snob.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Well I don't believe it is fair to say it is unethical to use radios

You have folks saying a shot over xxx distance (that number folks assign to it varies a lot too) is unethical so the bar for the statement is low. Hunt legally is all I advise, however a person chooses to conduct themselves within the law I'm not going to get particularly bothered over it.

 

[Dcrafton]

That does not make you a snob, you just have your preference in fishing and hunting that works for you. But he ask what type of hand signals people may use. Between everyone that roams this site we should be able to help him learn new techniques that have worked for others.


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[Bar]

That does not make you a snob, you just have your preference in fishing and hunting that works for you. But he ask what type of hand signals people may use. Between everyone that roams this site we should be able to help him learn new techniques that have worked for others.


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I'd help him, but I hunt solo. I was just expressing my opinion of it like the others. Maybe it will work on him and he'll try stalking on his own. It really is more rewarding.

 

[robby denning]

hey, I'm all good with guys that don't agree with radios but I guess I've seen so many big bucks get away even with radios, I've never had an issue with them. I follow the law of the land I'm hunting. Hat's off to those who chose not to use them.

 

[mtnwrunner]

I just bought the video, thank you Roy. I'm probably about to derail my own thread, but why the ethical issues with radios? Of all the things I have considered to be ethically questionable in modern hunting (muzzleloaders with rifling and scopes, 4 guides to walk a paying hunter to a bull, shooting at animals at exceptionally long ranges), radios have not been something I have ever thought about. Where do you draw the line? I mean, we have GPS, satellite maps, trail cameras, horses and ATVs, etc... I've always done things the hard way: bowhunting DIY on public land on the soles of my boots and I'm not sure I consider radios to be an unfair advantage or taking the easy way out. Also, before you lay into me - I know both of you are much more experienced than I and I'm not trying to pick a fight, just trying to pick your brain! So, with that said, drop some knowledge bombs on me!

Coug, not to derail your derail but in response to your post, for me it is really a matter of choices. I won't go into all the things I believe in but I choose to hunt a certain way and have been steadfast. No 4 wheelers, no radios, I do not use a GPS, Silva ranger compass does just fine. But I use maps and I use google earth. I suppose that some might say that hand signals are cheating but it is okay for me. Man, you could have a huge discussion on where to draw the line but it still kind of boils down to what you believe in. I hear a lot of guys say as long as it is legal, its okay. And they are right if that is what they wish to do. IMO, if a guy wants to have a radio to communicate with his buddies or have it for emergencies, I would support that even though I would not have one. If a hunter is using a radio to walk someone in for the kill, I don't see any difference between that and a drone. But, hey, I am a dinosaur..........
And bohntr is correct about that video with Larry Jones and Dave Doran. Lots of good memories with those fellas and it is a great watch. As I said in my first response, we like to keep the hand signals really simple and easy to see. I mainly hunt with my brother and we have killed a lot of animals using those 3 signals. Its also quite fun. We will also usually have some plan as to when we will stop and glass back across the canyon at the other guy so you both know when to look. Pick out some geographical point or some time that you both agree on so that you won't miss each other.

Randy

 

[TheCougar]

Believe it or not, the only successful stalks I have had were solo or the radios didn't work! Legal and ethical are two different things and the day I let the government morals dictate my personal ethics is the day I quit living. Randy, you are the original mountain man!!! No GPS really is old school, and this is coming from someone who carries a compass and knows how to do land nav and pace counting! I bought the video and will watch it as soon as I get back home. I appreciate all the words and thoughts from you guys. Now to keep the train from getting back on the tracks...

Moral choice and fair chase are two totally separate issues. Morals are subjective and personally defined, but fair chase is defined by an entity. If I hike 5 miles into the backcountry, spend days looking for deer, complete a 6 hour stalk, arrow a bedded buck while my buddy is on the radio and then pack it out myself, I would say that is significantly more fair chase than paying an outfitter to scout, find the animals, take me to them, and then field dress it and load it on horses for the pack out. However, I don't get the luxury of defining fair-chase. Both of these scenarios meet the criteria of B&C: FAIR CHASE, as defined by the Boone and Crockett Club, is the ethical, sportsmanlike, and lawful pursuit and taking of any free-ranging wild, native North American big game animal in a manner that does not give the hunter an improper advantage over such animals.

To be clear, I am not knocking outfitters, guides, or folks who use them, so don't start foaming at the mouth! The fair chase definition has some wiggle room for B&C-defined ethics under the "improper advantage over such animals" at the end of the definition, but again that definition of fair chase is owned by B&C, who effectively decides what constitutes an unfair advantage. My point being that it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks is or isn't fair-chase, because B&C decides fair chase, not us. Personal ethics and behavior on the other hand, is something that can be defined on personal morals - which is basically what Randy is saying - "this is what I consider to be ethical hunting behavior, which doesn't include radios".

I get the feeling that I have derailed the thread to the point that no one is actually going to answer the original question (besides Roy and Randy), but this is good discussion anyways and it passes the time! Oh yeah- I can't catch fish with dry or wet flies, which is why I hunt. Cheers!

 

[freebird134]

If I hike 5 miles into the backcountry, spend days looking for deer, complete a 6 hour stalk, arrow a bedded buck while my buddy is on the radio and then pack it out myself, I would say that is significantly more fair chase than paying an outfitter to scout, find the animals, take me to them, and then field dress it and load it on horses for the pack out.

oooooh SNAP!

hard to argue with this

 

[bohntr]

Okay, I'll bite. The big difference, for me, is the technological advantage it gives the hunter in 'real time'. I'm not against technology, per se, just how it's used. I have no problem with hunters using radios to check in on each other throughout the day.....using a GPS, a rangefinder, or any other gadgets providing they do not create an unfair advantage to the hunter and it's within fair chase. I don't agree with drones giving 'real time' information to a hunter during pursuit, trail cameras sending 'live feeds' to the hunter so they can respond and kill, or radios giving 'real time' information during a stalk. Either does B&C or P&Y......and I'm in support of both those clubs and what they stand for.

Bowhunting is suppose to be difficult, folks........a close range sport that puts you one on one with the animal you pursue. Success is not often and when achieved in a fair chase manner; it's very rewarding. I've been pulling bow strings for 40 years now.....longbow, recurve, compound it doesn't really matter......it's HOW you pursue that really makes the difference.

Hope everyone has a great season.

 

[Bar]

I don't think B&C has a thing to do with fair chase. I believe it's a personal choice. What satisfies me would be too strict for the majority. I know i'm not even close to how others hunt, so I don't push it on others. Well, not too much anyway. Just so you know how some do it. I'll give a partial list of my hunting.

I use no aids at all. I hunt as the mountain men did in the early 1800's. To start I use an old Hawken rifle. I use no maps, GPS, Google Earth, compass etc. I use landmarks, creeks etc for navigation. I use no optics at all. This has become difficult as my vision fades, but I won't change. I use no calls at all. This applies more to elk hunting. I always still hunt and always hunt alone. Open sights of course. Camo? Not hardly. No scent? Nope, I play the wind.

I started to hunt like this at 8 years old. I've never changed and i'm now still doing the same thing at 73. I've experimented with different things just to see what it was about, but I always went right back to my old way.

So, there's an old coots way of being as fair as possible to the game. Not for everybody, but it is an option for anybody it appeals to.

 

[robby denning]

Very respectable way to hunt Bar.