College vs skilled trades.

[Jbrow327]

I got a construction management degree. Most of my coworkers got much more difficult and expensive engineering degrees just to have the same job title as me. While they were studying differential equations and all other sorts of useless crap at all hours of the day and night, I was working on the side paying for tuition (and beer money of course). My courses were much more "real world" focused and the skills they taught us actually translated to my job.

Compared to the trade workers I work with, they tend to work more OT in the form of weekends or alternative shifts (swing/night) and I work more hours during the week. Salaried positions are a blessing and a curse. I can work 40 or 60 hours a week and get compensated the same. But I also have more schedule flexibility. If I need to take off at noon on Friday to travel 6 hours to a trailhead to go hunt I can generally do that. Not so much for the guys in the field from my experience. Work schedules are a bit more rigid.

There's a good bit of location volatility in commercial construction though if that matters to you. You can go from a 10 min commute on one job to 1.5 hours on the next.

I've thought about getting a construction management degree. Do you have to deal with a bunch of type A personalities every day? People who don't want to listen because you're the younger guy and they think you don't know shit.

 

[IBEWJMFL]

Depends on what you wanna do. I graduated high school got in to building power lines. And never looked back. And I’ve made 6 figures every year since then and with out a ounce of debt. But it’s not for everyone. We work in the mountains snow cats most of the winter. Heat during the summers and everything in between. I just could never ride a desk.

 

[IdahoElk]

I've thought about getting a construction management degree. Do you have to deal with a bunch of type A personalities every day? People who don't want to listen because you're the younger guy and they think you don't know shit.

If you never built anything then probably yes, if you have practical experience and furthered your education then probably no.

 

[IdahoElk]

There seems to be a lot of hype around skilled trades lately. I think it's just that, hype. People will recommend learning a trade over getting a good college degree. I don't get it. Everyone and their mother claim these tradesmen are making 100k a year. A simple look at BLS average salaries says otherwise.

I'm not saying they're not needed. I'm just saying I think they have become overrated as career options lately.

What do you guys think?


EDIT: Now, obviously, if you get a worthless degree then a skilled trade would be way better.

Just about all the shilled labor in my area is making $50 - $120hr, do what you enjoy instead of following the money or you're going to burn out.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

I've thought about getting a construction management degree. Do you have to deal with a bunch of type A personalities every day? People who don't want to listen because you're the younger guy and they think you don't know shit.

I would say it depends (which is the correct answer to any question in construction). There's no one on my project team like that. But you work with lots of different companies and there are some people you work with that are type A assholes that suck to work with but I'd say they're in the minority. The majority of people I've worked with are reasonable and respectful. They're typically the experts and they take pride in their work and are happy to explain things. This is coming from a project management perspective, or "office" guy.

Superintendent roles, the guys out there managin the project schedule, jobsite safety, day-to-day operations in the field typically involve a little more arguing, confrontation, type A personality to type A personality interaction from what I've seen.

 

[roadrunner]

Nobody is calling anyone else “less of engineer”. If you’re bitter you couldn’t pass a fairly easy test that all of the other dumb engineers passed, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

Licensure is a requirement in my states as a CYA for insurance. If you’re doing electrical, civil, or structural - good luck getting a job doing design and making good money without having your PE. That being said, I got mine primarily so I didn’t have to sit in meetings with other PE’s who would lecture me on means and method because I was just a dumb contractor.

If you’re in another field of engineering I think it’s less necessary. YMMV

A fallacy of most PE's is making incorrect assumptions...

My point was supposed to be why waste your time on a degree when the license is the only thing that "matters"?

Self insured companies often don't make it a requirement.

 

[GHOSTofWENDELL]

Since when did challenging ones self to do better and not being accepting of mediocrity become silly?

Maybe I am not understanding your take, and if that's the case I apologize. But, how is taking overtime equal accepting mediocrity?

For example my department has periods when we are bleeding overtime. If I don't have anything going on the next day why wouldn't I take it?

 

[loganwayne]

I've thought about getting a construction management degree. Do you have to deal with a bunch of type A personalities every day? People who don't want to listen because you're the younger guy and they think you don't know shit.

I’ve got a construction management degree. Working for a fairly small company doing high end residential and light commercial (dealerships, medical offices, higher education stuff)

it’s not that bad, the old guys can smell
Bullshit 100 ft away. BUT if you talk to them ask questions and respect their opinion they will save your ass time after time. I’ve got superintendent that are 2 years from retirement asking my opinion on stuff. It’s just like anything else earn respect and you get it back.

 

[loganwayne]

College isn’t for everyone. All my MP&E subs are always looking to hire more people there is a shortage of young guys that wanna do that work.

that said figure out what you want, I went to college for construction management got a coveted job with one of the largest companies in the area making 85k right outta school …. I quit 8 months after I started found a job with the company I’ve been at 5 years making a good bit less. I also went from working 6-7 days a week working 12-14 hours a day to 45-50 a week. They also have no problem if I check out early or come in late to go hunt as long as all my work is done and my projects are rolling good.

it’s all a give and take

 

[CJohnson]

A fallacy of most PE's is making incorrect assumptions...

My point was supposed to be why waste your time on a degree when the license is the only thing that "matters"?

Self insured companies often don't make it a requirement.

…Because part of getting the license is having a degree from an accredited institution?

 

[Raggedwolf]

Self employed skilled trades master electrician or plumber. Financial do really well for them selves with plenty of time off.

 

[idig4au]

A fallacy of most PE's is making incorrect assumptions...

My point was supposed to be why waste your time on a degree when the license is the only thing that "matters"?

Self insured companies often don't make it a requirement.

Well for one, it’s an requirement to be considered “qualified” especially if doing consulting work.

My “piece of paper” engineering degree has opened many doors for my career. Hardly a waste of time. Probably the best thing I did in my life was getting my degree. And yes I use my engineering degree routinely and no, I do not have my PE as it’s not really required in my role. Lack of licensing has not held me back in either technical or operational aspects. I probably should sit the exam one of these days just to have it.

Making incorrect assumptions in engineering comes from lack of experience. I see this all the time as well from consultants providing engineering support. I’ll usually re-engineer myself to improve or work with the consultant to redesign accordingly.

 

[NYyotekiller]

So, what's the point in getting the engineering degree if you have to have a license to "use" it? Wouldn't it make more sense to get the necessary training and specified education to get the license instead of the degree? After all, that's what the general public is paying for, the stamp.

This is where the world of academia and the whole college education narrative is the sham. You spend time and money to get the degree, but then can't use it until you get a license that is administered by pretty much a "clubhouse".

Either the degree or the license proves you understand the subject and its application. Both shouldn't be required.

The engineers I have worked with over the years that are PE's definitely don't shine all that much and often have to fix what they design...

The problem is now that most state licensure boards have made it so you are required to have a minimum of a bachelors degree in order to obtain a Professional license. Both engineers and land surveyors fall into this.

It used to be that you didn’t need any education in order to have a PE or a PLS but that has since gone away in most states including New York where I have my Professional Land Surveyors License. Most states have a retroactive clause so that if you’ve been working towards your license before they changed the requirements then you can still obtain one.

I’m not a fan of the mandatory education requirements that the board has enacted but you can’t do anything about it. They carry quite a big hammer so you need to tread lightly when dealing with them.

Going to be a lot less Land Surveyors in the future now that the education requirements are in place. Good job security for me now I guess.

 

[Jbrow327]

Self employed skilled trades master electrician or plumber. Financial do really well for them selves with plenty of time off.

I guess entrepreneurship should be considered an entirely different category.

 

[wyosam]

First degree was skilled, second required a degree (now have a graduate degree, too). I don’t think one is better than the other, just different paths. One can be very successful either way. I don’t regret my career change at all, but there are days I miss running equipment. Especially the last 18 months (I’m in healthcare now).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Coveyleader]

As a guy that doesn't have a a degree, but insisted on both my kids having one (both from good universities) I will let you make the decision.

 

[Actual_Cryptid]

It shouldn't be a versus. Figure out what interests you, what you're good at, and do that. I'm pretty decent at analysis, I grew up playing rules-heavy games like D&D and GURPS, and i figured out I was pretty decent at summarizing long reports. On the recommendation of a mentor, I tried an accounting course and that became my career. When i retire, I'll go back to school probably and take a teaching job part time, unless Cabelas pays enough to make a part time gig worthwhile.

If you have young people, give them opportunities to try things. I wanted to be a nurse, but my back kept me out of it, and i was too color-blind to pursue chemistry. The military let me build some skills, but it's not an opportunity for everyone, and the disabiltiies that came with it kept my out of several trades that would require climbing under houses or into a ceiling. In a better world, we'd have a more civil service opportunity, let young people see other parts of the US and meet people from outside of their city, town, or suburb. Half the value of college is meeting people with different ideas, cultures, and beliefs and then learning what you have in common.

 

[roadrunner]

The problem is now that most state licensure boards have made it so you are required to have a minimum of a bachelors degree in order to obtain a Professional license. Both engineers and land surveyors fall into this.

It used to be that you didn’t need any education in order to have a PE or a PLS but that has since gone away in most states including New York where I have my Professional Land Surveyors License. Most states have a retroactive clause so that if you’ve been working towards your license before they changed the requirements then you can still obtain one.

I’m not a fan of the mandatory education requirements that the board has enacted but you can’t do anything about it. They carry quite a big hammer so you need to tread lightly when dealing with them.

Going to be a lot less Land Surveyors in the future now that the education requirements are in place. Good job security for me now I guess.

Yes, what has really changed is that the degree has to be ABET accredited. Someone with an undergrad in math, chemistry, or physics that isn't ABET accredited can't take the test although they full well have the education to pass it as easily as any ABET degreed engineer.

It used to be a state by state thing but has since become nationalized over the past decade or so. Also, the license is only good for the discipline you sit for. Someone with a PE in petroleum engineering doesn't carry much salt if you doing mechanical work in HVAC.

It's almost as though some old "salty" engineers sat around belly-aching that people could actually pass the test without being an engineer by degree and decided to keep it a close-knit "fraternity" for engineers only...

 

[roadrunner]

Well for one, it’s an requirement to be considered “qualified” especially if doing consulting work.

My “piece of paper” engineering degree has opened many doors for my career. Hardly a waste of time. Probably the best thing I did in my life was getting my degree. And yes I use my engineering degree routinely and no, I do not have my PE as it’s not really required in my role. Lack of licensing has not held me back in either technical or operational aspects. I probably should sit the exam one of these days just to have it.

Making incorrect assumptions in engineering comes from lack of experience. I see this all the time as well from consultants providing engineering support. I’ll usually re-engineer myself to improve or work with the consultant to redesign accordingly.

I haven't needed a license either. You're correct, making assumptions is from a lack of experience and someone with 6 years under their belt and a newly issued license isn't a better engineer than someone who has been doing it for 30 years without the license.

But people see John Doe, PE and they think they are competent...

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Trades generally means people who want to work and don’t have a silver spoon in their mouth near as I can tell. I’m sure that a hustler with a college degree would do better, but on average college is an extension of babysitting.

disagree. On average college is not an extension of babysitting. Just like the trades there are extremes on both ends of the spectrum. Everyone on here would be pretty upset if they didn’t have a CPA or CFP to manage their taxes and retirement. In addition, if there weren’t folks with business and marketing degrees that were working to expand the businesses you work for you wouldn’t be in a job for you long, because the business would fold up.

my point is expertise is needed in both areas and one isn’t any better than the other. Individuals can make a good living in both if they’re willing to work hard.