College vs skilled trades.

[rickiesrevenge]

Just retired after 20 years in the military on the 1st. Happy to be done with that chapter of my life. Never made a ton of money. But one thing I learned along the way was to live within my means. Budgeting using Dave Ramsey's program really changed my life. Doesn't matter much how much money you make if its all gone and you don't know where it went. Though I suppose if you make enough money it might be tough to spend it all.

I'm applying to be an electrician apprentice, hopefully that pans out. Thats what my dad did and my brother does. They both make a lot more money working a lot less hours than I have. Do that for 10 years and really retire.

One thing I've thought for a long time is that colleges should have to co-sign on a students loan. They would quit the BS degree's that people will struggle to pay back. I also see the argument that there needs to be some personal responsibility for the student to choose wisely.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

I got a construction management degree. Most of my coworkers got much more difficult and expensive engineering degrees just to have the same job title as me. While they were studying differential equations and all other sorts of useless crap at all hours of the day and night, I was working on the side paying for tuition (and beer money of course). My courses were much more "real world" focused and the skills they taught us actually translated to my job.

Compared to the trade workers I work with, they tend to work more OT in the form of weekends or alternative shifts (swing/night) and I work more hours during the week. Salaried positions are a blessing and a curse. I can work 40 or 60 hours a week and get compensated the same. But I also have more schedule flexibility. If I need to take off at noon on Friday to travel 6 hours to a trailhead to go hunt I can generally do that. Not so much for the guys in the field from my experience. Work schedules are a bit more rigid.

There's a good bit of location volatility in commercial construction though if that matters to you. You can go from a 10 min commute on one job to 1.5 hours on the next.

 

[Poser]

That's about the silliest take in this thread.

Expand.

How much OT should one be willing/expected to work to justify making a living in their field?

 

[kwackkillncrew]

some careers are now forcing people to have degrees. In AK land surveying used to be more thought of as a trade tough to get into because you needed to know people who would give you a chance to learn on the job training. Now if you want to become a professional surveyor you need to have a bachelors or have a license in another state then take the state test. The thing is that most of the college stuff is theoretical but i still feel you learn alot more when your actually working instead of learning in school. College is what allowed me to get our company into drone surveying since i learned alot about photogrammetry and was the only one who had any experience with it. Yes coming out with some debt sucks but it was worth it for me. There are no guarantees in life and you have to decide what will ultimately hopefully work out for you and what will make you happy.

 

[roadrunner]

I’ve got a masters degree in engineering, PE licensure, and my commercial electricians license. I enjoy doing design work during the day and wiring houses on the side.

I think you should consider your options. I went to college for free (lottery scholarships), met a ton of people, and learned a good bit. Networking has some value.

It’s also easier to go to college from 18-22 and then decide to pursue the trades than it is to work in the trades right out of high and then try to go to college.

So, what's the point in getting the engineering degree if you have to have a license to "use" it? Wouldn't it make more sense to get the necessary training and specified education to get the license instead of the degree? After all, that's what the general public is paying for, the stamp.

This is where the world of academia and the whole college education narrative is the sham. You spend time and money to get the degree, but then can't use it until you get a license that is administered by pretty much a "clubhouse".

Either the degree or the license proves you understand the subject and its application. Both shouldn't be required.

The engineers I have worked with over the years that are PE's definitely don't shine all that much and often have to fix what they design...

 

[roadrunner]

Give me a person with good work ethics over a highly educated person with give a shit attitude any day of the week.

Think most people prefer that. Level of education is irrelevant...

 

[Throwin Darts]

I have a finance degree and work in my field. 100% of my colleagues also have a degree. I can't earn what I do in the trades and I'm 100% confident that getting my degree was the right move for me. It takes all kinds. For some the trades are the best option. For others the answer is college.

 

[FLATHEAD]

That's about the silliest take in this thread.

Since when did challenging ones self to do better and not being accepting of mediocrity become silly?

 

[cured_ham]

I am 2 years out of college. When in college I worked a year at my schools IT department then got an internship (paid) at my current company.

I had a full ride and pocketed +4k a semester. I make 65k a year with benefits and a full month of PTO. I just bought a house.

College was totally worth it. I cannot think of any other way I could get a full time position in a career field normally requiring a degree and prior job experience. Do not go to college to learn things; go to get job
experience and a piece of paper.

Now if you go to college to learn, party, or do anything other than position yourself to have a high paying job upon exit with MINIMAL DEBT then I would say that you probably do not need to go to college. You can waste time and money in way more exciting ways.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Ok so who said 300,000-400,000 was rich? No one. But you pulled that number out of thin air and we are suppose to know what you meant? Curious to know your definition of rich?

This site is full of ignorant people looking to argue over shit that makes no sense. Do you and keep saying everyone is lying. I’ll do me and know that in a weeks time, I write many of these tradesman checks. On par or above the income they claim. The difference is, they have worked to get there while sacrificing what you value more then money. It’s why they make those checks and you don’t. It’s also why you likely have a bunch more free time.



What about that is so hard to understand? That’s the way it works. You are paid your worth based on variables that in the end, we all have sone control over. Quit calling every one a liar. Do you and be happy. Allow others the same.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

There are examples of people making 50k a year and retiring with multi millions. Are they not “rich”?

A survey a few years ago showed that around 72k of income was the ideal balance of income to happiness. I’d imagine that has since bumped up to around 90k, but I can tell you that in my present job and lifestyle, remaining single, I don’t need to make more than $120-150k to be “rich”. Most 7 figure earners have very little to no time to do things outside of work. At some point, Income has diminishing returns. I could make 200k+ if I went 100% hustle with no hobbies and no life, but what’s that going to get me? I’m single with no kids, way I figure, if I die with millions in the bank then I didn’t live life very well.

My point exactly.

 

[kwackkillncrew]

So, what's the point in getting the engineering degree if you have to have a license to "use" it? Wouldn't it make more sense to get the necessary training and specified education to get the license instead of the degree? After all, that's what the general public is paying for, the stamp.

This is where the world of academia and the whole college education narrative is the sham. You spend time and money to get the degree, but then can't use it until you get a license that is administered by pretty much a "clubhouse".

Either the degree or the license proves you understand the subject and its application. Both shouldn't be required.

The engineers I have worked with over the years that are PE's definitely don't shine all that much and often have to fix what they design...

The state licensing board comes up with the requirements to be licensed engineers. They are the ones who have pushed the college requirements. you dont need a license to use a degree. Generally you get out of college with a FS and FE (if you pass the test) then you work under a licensed person for a few years (think of it as a apprenticeship doing all the work other then putting your stamp on it) then they sign off that you have learned the correct skills to take the PLS or PE license test. Once you pass those tests you are then licensed to stamp work. Most companies/engineers dont want to have a greenie working under them. Look at the deadliest catch. how many green people do they actually keep around. They have to go through tons of people who become liabilities because they dont understand how much work goes into it. Thats why people who are in the engineer world would rather higher people who have been (learning in school) and not some kid who has no idea what engineering is about. There are plenty of people who draft design plans who do not have degrees, but they are mostly older people who got in before the big push for schooling happened. They want people to have some knowledge before getting a job in the field. Companies dont have issues with some on the job training but they would rather someone have some back ground knowledge about what their tasks are going to be.

 

[StuckoYota99]

I tell students in high-school that there is nothing wrong with getting a college degree in something they enjoy or are interested in.
However they should go out and learn a trade before they do. So that if they get 4-8 years down the road and can't get a job in their feild they can at least fall back on the trade they learned and put food on the table.
I feel a lot of push to get a 4 year degree comes from parents wanting a better life for their child and give them opportunities they never had.
On the other hand there is a huge push to get into the trades because the previous generation is retiring and there are not enough capable bodies to fill their shoes.

 

[roadrunner]

you dont need a license to use a degree. Generally you get out of college with a FS and FE (if you pass the test) then you work under a licensed person for a few years (think of it as a apprenticeship doing all the work other then putting your stamp on it) then they sign off that you have learned the correct skills to take the PLS or PE license test. Once you pass those tests you are then licensed to stamp work. Most companies/engineers dont want to have a greenie working under them. Look at the deadliest catch. how many green people do they actually keep around. They have to go through tons of people who become liabilities because they dont understand how much work goes into it. Thats why people who are in the engineer world would rather higher people who have been (learning in school) and not some kid who has no idea what engineering is about.

I know how it all works. I have been an engineer going on 20+ years so I am no "greenie". In my former roles, a PE was never necessary. So, does this make me any less an engineer because I don't stamp anything? Sounds like yes, you have to have a license to be a "true" engineer even though you've ran the gauntlet of obtaining knowledge in Thermodynamics, Differential Equations, and Mechanics/Statics.

I think it should be part of the engineer's curriculum to actually work in their field for a couple of years while going to school - and that doesn't mean in an office. A civil should have to spend time as a materials technician, a mechanical working on engines, a structural flying steel, etc.

As I've said before, I get to fix the screw-ups that licensed engineers make...

 

[SuperDUECE22]

MOST 4 year college degrees are waste of money in my opinion. A majority of my high school classmates took the university route while i opted for 2 year trade school. Fast forward 15 years later & they are all still in student loan debt to go along with everything else they have financed through the roof. Meanwhile I've been debt free for 15 years and will be retired by the time they have their student loan debt paid off.

 

[Tod osier]

Coming from a family based in the trades I didn't even consider it. I don't know why, I had plenty of exposure to it (mostly masonry) and I'm generally good working with my hands and I love creating things. I'm glad I, personally, went the college plus route. The flexibility I have to dictate the course of my day, year and career is great, my schedule is great, the money great and the benefits great.

 

[CorbLand]

Find what you like to do and do what needs to happen to get there. I landscaped for most of high school and out of high school. I liked doing it but the day I had to dig trenches in the middle of what became a soccer field, in August and was right where the Teton Dam flood dumped the majority of its deposit (think lots of rock) because our trencher broke, I said screw this and went to college. Did I like college? Nope but I needed that paper to get me an interview.

I like the consistency of a paycheck and knowing my job is secure. It wasn't that long ago that a lot of people working in the trades where out of work and barely getting by. It also wasn't that long ago that people with MBAs where handing you fries.

Trades are great. College is great. Look to where you want to be and make it happen. Each and every job is important to an economy.

 

[Thunder]

This site is full of ignorant people looking to argue over shit that makes no sense. Do you and keep saying everyone is lying. I’ll do me and know that in a weeks time, I write many of these tradesman checks. On par or above the income they claim. The difference is, they have worked to get there while sacrificing what you value more then money. It’s why they make those checks and you don’t. It’s also why you likely have a bunch more free time.



What about that is so hard to understand? That’s the way it works. You are paid your worth based on variables that in the end, we all have sone control over. Quit calling every one a liar. Do you and be happy. Allow others the same.

I think you’re going a little extreme calling yourself ignorant. That’s not really necessary.

It sounds like you’re used to doing things inefficient. Writing checks? Hello 1995. Send me a PM and I’ll let you know the process we use for issuing payroll for my company. No check writing! In fact most are on direct deposit.

 

[CJohnson]

I know how it all works. I have been an engineer going on 20+ years so I am no "greenie". In my former roles, a PE was never necessary. So, does this make me any less an engineer because I don't stamp anything? Sounds like yes, you have to have a license to be a "true" engineer even though you've ran the gauntlet of obtaining knowledge in Thermodynamics, Differential Equations, and Mechanics/Statics.

I think it should be part of the engineer's curriculum to actually work in their field for a couple of years while going to school - and that doesn't mean in an office. A civil should have to spend time as a materials technician, a mechanical working on engines, a structural flying steel, etc.

As I've said before, I get to fix the screw-ups that licensed engineers make...

Nobody is calling anyone else “less of engineer”. If you’re bitter you couldn’t pass a fairly easy test that all of the other dumb engineers passed, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

Licensure is a requirement in my states as a CYA for insurance. If you’re doing electrical, civil, or structural - good luck getting a job doing design and making good money without having your PE. That being said, I got mine primarily so I didn’t have to sit in meetings with other PE’s who would lecture me on means and method because I was just a dumb contractor.

If you’re in another field of engineering I think it’s less necessary. YMMV

 

[HuntHarder]

Why would anyone say one way is better than the other? Different strokes, different folks right? Trades work for some, College degrees work for others. Some do both. The problem is when one or the other thinks their way is the right way. What is right for me, may not be right for you. BFD!