Cold, Wind, Snow and Wet: Softshell Conditions

[doverpack12]

I know people like to use a 4 layer system for backpack hunting but for alot of the conditions I see and experience I feel like I am compromising my effectiveness or letting my clothing make the decision for me to take shelter or hunt.

I frequently fought wind for years and the wind is really my biggest challenge. I can prepare for temperature all day long but wind is the great equalizer. Add to that either lite rain or any prolonged snow and that is where I feel softshells are more of a need than a luxury item if you want to hunt effectively and not compromise your ability to stay on the mountain.

I typically have a merino or synthetic base, fleece like mid layer, puffy and rain jacket. Really if I'm trying to get a shot puffy and rain jacket are out of the question. If its raining medium to hard I have no issue hunting in the jacket as there is enough background noise. With the right puffy you could potentially move in on an animal and make a shot with a bow but chances are you will have to move enough or stop and take the jacket off to move fast enough if necessary.

So for me a softshell has become more of a necessary piece than a luxury item especially in later season (November in Montana) conditions. I have found the right mid layer can bridge a pretty large gap but I want to know what others are really using and the conditions you are able to hunt effectively in with say a base and mid layer of fleece or merino? If there is wind what do you do so you can still hunt, if there is snow what are you going to do, lite rain all day that will soak you to the bone by the end if you use merino of fleece, 20 degrees snowing and wind blowing 10-15 mph? These are tough conditions that I don't feel a 4 layer system effectively handles.

You can bring brands into this but I feel the discussion is better kept general for the sake of determining the right layer combination for the conditions.

 

[Jimss]

For wind I prefer quiet cloth materials such as microfleece with thinsulate or windstopper. I steer clear of materials that are noisy in brush. It seems like a lot of the new outer materials are mighty noisy?

There are likely few outers available that won't gradually end up soaking wet in a downpour other than rain gear that is specifically designed for rain. Not all gortex is created equally. I believe it's a great investment paying more for high quality raingear. I've never been a fan of merino or wool. ...even though it is supposedly still warm when wet?

I'm not exactly sure why but one item that tends to get overlooked more than any is a vest. I use a quiet cloth material vest as an outer layer during early season hunts and an inner layer when it gets super cold. If you think about it a vest keeps your core warm while allowing freedom of movement of arms. A vest also allows a lot more ventilation than a jacket when actively hiking. The last thing I want on a hunt is to perspire and get wet from the inside out! A vest is my go-to layer that I never leave home without! It likely bridges the gap that you mentioned in your post above!

In rain and snow I forgo quietness for remaining warm and dry. It would be nice if there was quiet cloth material that was 100% waterproof but I don't think there is such a thing? One consideration with rain jackets is pitzips. All of my jackets (especially rain jackets) have pitzips for ventilation. My raingear tends to be an additional layer that effectively cuts wind.

There are small items that also bridge the gap and may be the icing on the cake for comfort. Neck gators, gloves, gators, socks, hats, balaclavas, etc are light and don't take up much room in a pack.

 

[belly-deep]

I almost never carry a rain jacket in November. Soft shell all the way.

I’ll wear a wind proof mid layer if I think it might be warm but windy. If it’s colder, I just wear the soft shell for wind.

The trick is finding the right soft shell. Most have a fleece liner, making them too warm to seriously hike in. Some are not very wind resistant either. Many are too noisy. But a couple of them are just right and probably are my most important piece of clothing. With the right one, you can hunt and be comfortable in the worst weather.

 

[toadmeister]

For wind I prefer quiet cloth materials such as microfleece with thinsulate or windstopper. I steer clear of materials that are noisy in brush. It seems like a lot of the new outer materials are mighty noisy?

There are likely few outers available that won't gradually end up soaking wet in a downpour other than rain gear that is specifically designed for rain. Not all gortex is created equally. I believe it's a great investment paying more for high quality raingear. I've never been a fan of merino or wool. ...even though it is supposedly still warm when wet?

I'm not exactly sure why but one item that tends to get overlooked more than any is a vest. I use a quiet cloth material vest as an outer layer during early season hunts and an inner layer when it gets super cold. If you think about it a vest keeps your core warm while allowing freedom of movement of arms. A vest also allows a lot more ventilation than a jacket when actively hiking. The last thing I want on a hunt is to perspire and get wet from the inside out! A vest is my go-to layer that I never leave home without! It likely bridges the gap that you mentioned in your post above!

In rain and snow I forgo quietness for remaining warm and dry. It would be nice if there was quiet cloth material that was 100% waterproof but I don't think there is such a thing? One consideration with rain jackets is pitzips. All of my jackets (especially rain jackets) have pitzips for ventilation. My raingear tends to be an additional layer that effectively cuts wind.

There are small items that also bridge the gap and may be the icing on the cake for comfort. Neck gators, gloves, gators, socks, hats, balaclavas, etc are light and don't take up much room in a pack.

I've found the Sitka Jetstream jacket and vest to fit most my needs. I've gone about 2 hours in a steady rain in the Jetstream jacket and was cozy as a kitten inside. The pitzips in the jacket are fantastic.

 

[Trial153]

Agree, as bowhunter a softshell has a place for me. Looking back at pictures I can believe the number of times I am in either my Jetstream jacket and or vest.

 

[tlkaetz]

Looks like I am going to have to pick up a Sitka Jetstream Jacket! How is the fit? I wear a size large in everything from Sitka (Kelvin Hoody, Heavyweight Hoody).

 

[toadmeister]

Looks like I am going to have to pick up a Sitka Jetstream Jacket! How is the fit? I wear a size large in everything from Sitka (Kelvin Hoody, Heavyweight Hoody).

I had to size up for the Jetstream jacket to allow layering and a roomy fit. For the vest I ordered to my size and it fits snug but I like my vests that way.

 

[Trial153]

Same as this guy^ up on the jacket, regular size on the vest

 

[tlkaetz]

Cool thanks.

 

[Michiganhunter]

I have been wanting a jet stream jacket for a few years now but I’m having ahatdtime coming up with the money. It’s one of those things that i really want but don’t need.

 

[mtnkid85]

I feel the 20* snowing and blowing is much easier to deal with than the 35-40* wet drizzle.

Im a soft-shell guy as well, which hear in MT is easy to pull off. Really after mid september I quit carrying rain gear and transition to my soft shells.
That august-septmeber period I'm leaving the softshell out for either a full rain shell or a light wind shirt and probably spending most of the day with my fleece as my outer layer and just adding one of the shells in the am/pm or in the wind.

So for me it looks like this.
Aug-sep. lighter synthetic base (Capliene 1 or 2), mid weight fleece (something like R1 or Core heavyweight), either light windshell (Sitka mtn Jacket) or full rain jacket, possibly a lighter puffy
Nov- on. Mid weight synthetic base, same mid weight fleece which might get swapped out for a heavier active insulation piece in the cold late season, then my softshell (Kuiu guide), then a puffy

 

[gdavis]

First Lite Catalyst, Kuiu Axis, Sitka Jetstream are the 3 I looked into for the very things you brought up. I only have experience with the Axis since I ended up going that route. This is an issue that I think you have nailed. I see the logic people have with the 'never softshell' theory. But new softshells fill this void your talking about. Im always short on funds so I have to make my clothes be multi purpose. I backp pack hunt mainly but often we will take wheelers out and hunt out of a camp that we rode out to mainly for moose season. Always spot and stalk, I bought the axis from kuiu and was real skeptical until I took it snowboarding and it ended up performing very well and fills that void your talking about.

Iv found I can get creative and make a softshell do far more than your average mid weight fleece for a very small weight penalty but it wasn’t without basic math adding oz, it obviously doesn’t belong in a ultra lightweight pack like sheep hunting for me. But for spot and stalk in snow or expecting sub freezing IMO a great softshell can shine. But I’m using it like how some of these guys want to use the combo of the Kenai and Peloton 200. Mind you I’m hunting in various climates in Alaska depending on where we are going that year. See below and the Axis is a new jacket I’m gonna be trying this year but the layering works already and iv been putting it through the test before relying on it. (Listing tops only)

Lightweight sheep hunt kit:
Merino 125 SS (base)
Peloton 97 Hoody (5oz)
SD Ultra hooded (7.9oz)
Chugach (18.9oz)
I usually have the p97 on so total pack weight is 26.8oz and that will get me down to low 20s still comfortably.

Later season moose or caribou I’ll be using the same setup as above minus 125ss but adding the axis. P97 will be base. This would be 44.1oz pack for tops for SD Ultra, axis, and Chugach. The axis is very flexible material like a fleece hoody so I can use it the same as others on here use their p200’s but the axis is warmer, very water and wind resistant and more durable with breath ability for hiking and I can use this setup into single digits and possibly lower I have not tried yet though but it gives me a whole world of options. It’s apples to oranges on how you try stuff. For instance a SD pro and Yukon is still 44oz. The Softshell has a place when used right but not when your counting oz. If your looking at only packing 2 jackets, do rain and puffy, I do this often with a Merino T under the p97 because the 97 weighs nothing and is literally like a magic carpet, amazing. But if your looking to add a layer, the Axis is gonna be hard to beat. Try Merino T < Axis < Puffy < Chugach. It works. Guys get stuck thinking that if they have a Softshell it has to be an outer layer, not the case with the new Axis or dare I say it the First lite Catalyst it can be a very effective mid layer now that these new ones aren’t stiff as a board and don’t weigh a ton. The never-softshell dogma is out dated with the new ones coming out now that companies like FL and Kuiu are using more mountaineering tech than before, unless counting oz, then it’s SD Ultra and Chugach all the way. But for really cold weather active hunting it’s a good option.

 

[austinphps]

I've read people raving about the sitka jetstream, and I might just save up to get one, one day. But what jacket of kuiu is the most comparable? The guide, axis or rubicon?

Compared as far as warmth, weight, wind/water resistance?

- - - Updated - - -

For weight - it looks like the Guide would be the closest.

But the axis states its more for late season - so that one is possibly warmer? Anyone compare any of the kuiu line directly to the sitka jetstream?

Thanks

 

[toadmeister]

I've read people raving about the sitka jetstream, and I might just save up to get one, one day. But what jacket of kuiu is the most comparable? The guide, axis or rubicon?

Compared as far as warmth, weight, wind/water resistance?

- - - Updated - - -

For weight - it looks like the Guide would be the closest.

But the axis states its more for late season - so that one is possibly warmer? Anyone compare any of the kuiu line directly to the sitka jetstream?

Thanks

I have both the Kuiu guide and Sitka Jetstream. I like the Sitka Jetstream better for a Hunting jacket; better cut, better wind block with Gore.

The Kuiu guide is a nice jacket too, I use it as my everyday jacket for wearing out and about and to work during the colder months.

 

[fngTony]

I've read people raving about the sitka jetstream, and I might just save up to get one, one day. But what jacket of kuiu is the most comparable? The guide, axis or rubicon?

Compared as far as warmth, weight, wind/water resistance?

- - - Updated - - -

For weight - it looks like the Guide would be the closest.

But the axis states its more for late season - so that one is possibly warmer? Anyone compare any of the kuiu line directly to the sitka jetstream?

Thanks

Of those three kuiu jackets the guide is very similar except it’s designed to breathe where the jet stream has windstopper. I researched both extensively and ended up with the guide because I planned to use it while active. It was a bust and using it as a shell when heavy rain isn’t a concern it did nothing. Everyone with a jet stream says it cuts wind and retains body heat when wearing over a puffy.

The axis looks to compete on the wind stopping side of things, while having some hard shell panels in it. I don’t own it, just going on the specs and a few reviews.

The rubicon I have no idea, just a more affordable version of the guide?

 

[austinphps]

thanks FNG and TOAD for the feedback. Looks like i might have to look more at the axis vs the jetstream as I am looking to cut the wind and wear this jacket in the later seasons.

 

[Benjblt]

Of those three kuiu jackets the guide is very similar except it’s designed to breathe where the jet stream has windstopper. I researched both extensively and ended up with the guide because I planned to use it while active. It was a bust and using it as a shell when heavy rain isn’t a concern it did nothing. Everyone with a jet stream says it cuts wind and retains body heat when wearing over a puffy.

The axis looks to compete on the wind stopping side of things, while having some hard shell panels in it. I don’t own it, just going on the specs and a few reviews.

The rubicon I have no idea, just a more affordable version of the guide?

My wife bought me the Kuiu Guide a few years ago. I like it but if I'm honest I think it's a sham. It's not that warm and doesn't block a stiff wind. I feel it doesn't provide enough protection for what a softshell is meant for. I'm very interested in the Jet Stream.

 

[doverpack12]

I have a Jetstream and guide and my friend has an old Jetstream with no hood and just ordered the Axis. Hopefully I will have a good feel for where the Axis falls shortly

 

[MT_Wyatt]

I’d personally lean the other direction from most it sounds like - I want breathability more than a laminate in a softshell. I think the jetstream and a lot of windstopper pieces are nice, but when I’m moving I sweat a ton more in windstopper it seems. Pieces like the guide series, first lite catalyst, etc that don’t use a laminate seem a better balance of weather resistance and breathability for me - I think the trick is how you use it. I use mine to replace a mid layer fleece a lot of times. If I was running a softshell like an outer shell all of the time, I’m betting the windstopper pieces would have more appeal.

 

[austinphps]

I have a Jetstream and guide and my friend has an old Jetstream with no hood and just ordered the Axis. Hopefully I will have a good feel for where the Axis falls shortly

Would like to hear some feedback on the Jetstream vs the Axis once your friend gets hands on it. Are you on the same page that the guide isn't as wind resistant/warm as the jetstream? so the comparison of jet/axis is a fair head-to-head?