Cold weld

Harvey_NW

WKR
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Feb 13, 2019
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This came up in another thread and it was recommended that it be it's own instead of spinning off, so I think some good questions to get a discussion going for those that have experienced it are:

1. What was the state of the inner surface of brass neck before loading? (Wet tumbled squeaky clean, dry tumbled, nylon brush, don't even touch it, etc.)
2. How long had the ammo been loaded?
3. What elements was the ammo exposed to?
4. What issues did it cause?
5. How did you confirm it?
6. Did you find a fix for it?

My experience:
1. Peterson brass with multiple firings, dry tumbled after sizing, nylon brushed necks. H4831SC, Berger 105VLD.

2. Ammo was loaded roughly 6-8 months before experiencing issues, 100rds loaded early fall after truing the load for the hunting season.

3. The ammo was in (2) 50rd blue plastic ammo boxes, and rode around in the truck for around a week through 2 seasons, otherwise stored in my equipment room with a controlled climate.

4. When I experienced it, temps were about 20° colder than during validation. I validated in about 50° weather, it was a cold spring morning and about 30° when I noticed the issue. Noticed high impacts or misses at a target used for truing and validation, bolt lift, and shiny ejector swipes with a load that was 2gr below ejector marks at 50°.

5. Did some research and came across cold weld, bumped a few rounds a couple thou in the seating die and could feel and audibly hear the bond break.

6. Read that graphite neck lube would prevent the issue and implemented dusting necks with a q-tip immediately prior to seating to my load process and haven't noticed an issue since.

Another member posted they still experienced cold weld even using graphite lube in a slightly different manner than I am, so I plan to check ammo loaded last fall and see if it is present and report back.
 
Are you shooting suppressed?

I’m not convinced that cold weld could cause that kind of anomaly.

Even ammo that’s only been sitting a day, even with carbon covered necks during seating I can still make it pop on the seater if pressed in farther.
 
Are you shooting suppressed?
Wasn't at that time, rifle was a factory gen 1 Ruger American Predator with self timing MDT brake.

I’m not convinced that cold weld could cause that kind of anomaly.

Even ammo that’s only been sitting a day, even with carbon covered necks during seating I can still make it pop on the seater if pressed in farther.
Maybe it gets worse over time? All I know is it took notably more force than normal seating pressure to break the bond, it was a clearly audible crack when it broke. I seated a sample of 5 deeper and shot them the next day in the same conditions with no signs of pressure.
 
Just ran 5 rounds through the seating die and bumped them a couple thou, zero crack of a bond or change in seating pressure.

1. 1x fired ADG brass, FL sized with expander ball polished down to .003" under bullet diameter, dry tumbled in white rice for 30 min to remove lube, nylon brushed on a motorized prep station.

2. This ammo was loaded the day after making a powder charge adjustment for 1x fired brass and temp testing on Christmas day.

3. Ammo has been acclimated to multiple warm and cold temps and humidities from coyote hunting during the winter and being brought back in the house.

4. Not notable issues since loading.

5. Ran 5 through the seating die with no changes since loading.

6. Dusted 5 necks in a row with Imperial dry graphite lube on a q-tip, reload, repeat, before seating bullets.
 
Just ran 5 rounds through the seating die and bumped them a couple thou, zero crack of a bond or change in seating pressure.

1. 1x fired ADG brass, FL sized with expander ball polished down to .003" under bullet diameter, dry tumbled in white rice for 30 min to remove lube, nylon brushed on a motorized prep station.

2. This ammo was loaded the day after making a powder charge adjustment for 1x fired brass and temp testing on Christmas day.

3. Ammo has been acclimated to multiple warm and cold temps and humidities from coyote hunting during the winter and being brought back in the house.

4. Not notable issues since loading.

5. Ran 5 through the seating die with no changes since loading.

6. Dusted 5 necks in a row with Imperial dry graphite lube on a q-tip, reload, repeat, before seating bullets.
You're saying you applied graphite with q tip before seating bullets on the rounds you loaded around Christmas, right?
 
You're saying you applied graphite with q tip before seating bullets on the rounds you loaded around Christmas, right?
Yes, exactly. That's how I've been doing it since I started using graphite.

I thought the ammo I loaded on Christmas was my oldest loaded ammo to date, but that reminded me I still have about 20 loaded in Peterson brass with 165 TGK's from before I had my chamber touched up with the AW2 reamer and restarted with a new lot of ADG. These were loaded sometime around September or earlier of '23. Just bumped 5 and there was no audible pop, but they took a slight bit more force to get started and felt "sticky", is how I would describe it. Nowhere near the same extent of my initial experience with the creedmoor loads.
 
Neolube 2 is the stuff. Ive had good luck with forsters mica powder, imperial dry graphite as well but prefer Neolube 2 applied with small foam q tip… thin layer befor expanding with mandrel. Good luck.
 
I have always used graphite. I stick the case neck in a container with graphite and some lead shot, then tap out the excess on the container lid. The shot makes sure a plug of graphite doesn't stay in the case.
 
I had some loads from last year for a rifle I know longer have. I just bumped the bullets a little deeper to fit the chamber in a new barrel and there was a noticeable "snap". I always dunk the bottom half of the bullets in graphite when loading clean brass, but I didn't for these because I didn't clean the brass. Got me thinking that I should probably use graphite even with necks that have carbon in them.
 
One of the problems I have with this entire issue, is I haven't ever heard of commercial loads being prepped with graphite or some other neck treatment. Yet, I've fired ammo by the tens of thousands that was older than me, in belt-feds no less.

Does this cold weld actually make any difference at all in accuracy or pressure???
 
In almost thirty years of reloading I’ve never experienced it and I do nothing to lube the case mouth. This summer I fired reloads for three rifles I hadn’t shot in a very long time. Those loads were put together between 2003-2005. Every one went bang and all grouped about how my notes said they used to with consistent velocities. This was probably 100 rounds or so. I’ve also fired factory/milsurp ammo that was older than my grandpa’s buckskin rubber with no issues. But I do always store ammo in a stable environment other than loads that are in the rifle or spares when hunting.
 
One of the problems I have with this entire issue, is I haven't ever heard of commercial loads being prepped with graphite or some other neck treatment. Yet, I've fired ammo by the tens of thousands that was older than me, in belt-feds no less.

Does this cold weld actually make any difference at all in accuracy or pressure???

I agree and would like to know if there is a control measure in factory ammunition.

I have noticed that if it happens my POI changes and if my load is near pressure I may get some ejector marks. It's not a huge deal if you're aware of it but I'd like to be able to prevent it so I can load a year's worth of ammo and not have to fiddle with breaking that bond on them before shooting.
 
One of the problems I have with this entire issue, is I haven't ever heard of commercial loads being prepped with graphite or some other neck treatment. Yet, I've fired ammo by the tens of thousands that was older than me, in belt-feds no less.

Does this cold weld actually make any difference at all in accuracy or pressure???
Factory ammo would be new brass, where I noticed it was on reloaded brass with residual carbon in the necks. My experience was high impacts or misses of a known target and distance previously shot, and pressure signs on the brass, and bolt lift showed up.

I have noticed that if it happens my POI changes and if my load is near pressure I may get some ejector marks.
Same. I haven't had issues since using graphite.
 
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