Cold bore zero versus (very) Hot bore zero “test”

[eric1115]

30 shots
No cooling
No cleaning (about 3500 rounds)

Pull those 5 flyers out and that's a great group!

In all seriousness, very good shooting. That's more impressive to me than any .25" 3-shot group.

 

[RyanT26]

30 shots
No cooling
No cleaning (about 3500 rounds)

Did you at least fire a shot or two through the barrel to bring it up to its normal operating temp before starting that 30 round group????

 

[The Guide]

Did you at least fire a shot or two through the barrel to bring it up to its normal operating temp before starting that 30 round group????

Or was the cold bore done at a strict 25⁰, no take backs.

Jay

 

[journeyman713]

No. Volume is skill, volume takes time, time used well is skill.

Spending an hour to get 10 minutes of training is foolish. You need to burn the same amount of ammo, it is simply how mush time you use to do it in. So money has nothing to do with it, but if time is indeed money, then your practice costs more than it needs to for a given result.

Looks like your "basic common sense" is what I considered nonsense. Which is why appealing to common sense is such a terrible debate strategy.

Sounds like you're in the - " this thread, is a Epiphany, club".
Serious question. What did you learn in 400 posts, that you didn't already know?

Also, you may have missed where I talked about taking the time to compare shooting, over many days, in many climates, being of some usefulness, over hammering out them all at once. Nonsense, Really?

 

[RockAndSage]

I think some roksliders forget that a lot of people that come here don’t know “the secret”.. it’s the reason I came here looking for answers. I shot a Remington 700 factory synthetic .270. It would slightly wander year to year. Walk horizontally when I would fire rapidly. After my first sheep hunt it was off something crazy like 4-6”. Over the years I had rings come loose, scope change, trigger change, etc. The people I hunted with used rugers, tikkas, Remington, Leopold, Nikon, vortex, and the list goes on.. none properly setup, capable of holding zero, or that could track properly will dialing. So most would avoid long range sessions. Find one group of three that was close and call it good untill next year. Did we kill? Yes we did. Did we miss often at marginal distance? Yes we did.

Now after properly setting up rifles, scopes, stocks, triggers, etc the guns magically hold zero. It’s fun to practice. And I don’t care to clean my gun or let it cool down.

Step 1 research how to setup
Step 2 buy gun (if yours sucks)
Step three assemble properly
Step four sight in properly
Step five practice
Step six kill and eat

I have done this with two rifles of my own now. I setup a friends rifle as well. He showed up to the range and dialed from 200-630 yards and dumped the silhouettes.He asked should I let it cool? Nope.. Should I clean it? Nope I have over 1000 rounds through mine with no issues. Killed an elk the next week. And thanked me for all the research, rifle setup, sight in, etc.

I will add when I first started here I had a hard time believing the wisdom of the world could be so wrong. Good luck to the fngs. The answers are there if you are willing to open your mind. “Trust but verify”

Great post.

It also caused me to realize something that's been kicking around in the back of my head for awhile:

What all this solid, but "unconventional" wisdom on Rokslide has consistently done, is kill off the mysteries that I had been blaming on myself.

• Wandering zero? Definitely not my $2000 rifle scope that nobody else has a problem with - must be me.
• "Load development" taking 100-200 rounds, and still getting squirrely 3-round groups sometimes? Definitely not everyone's "process" - must be me.
• Scope rings coming loose? Definitely not the loctite that's used on aerospace assemblies - must be me.
• Groups not sub-MOA all day? Definitely not my $2000 gun or $3/round ammo - must be me.
• Not able to practice with my 30-06 to the same reps as my AR before inducing flinch? Definitely not the cartridge nobody else has a problem with - must be me.

All these different problems that "other people" weren't getting - I had no idea just how much of it was because people cherry-pick their BS, they genuinely forget their fails, and they didn't have broad connectivity in sharing fails with each other (especially when it goes against tribal brand loyalty, Fudd-lore, or accepted wisdom the cool kids dish out). Or, like me, they tended lay accountability with the Indian first, not the arrows. Because mindset, skillset, toolset, in that order.

And all that had me running around in circles on some things, chasing my tail. This thread is one of many here that started stomping that $h*t down, giving me actual threads to start pulling apart and dialing in on where I can get traction and improvement on performance, especially in assessing and choosing better arrow materials, and having better evaluation processes.

Just knowing that a 30-shot group should be a basic starting point with a gun and ammo to get its cone of fire would have saved me tens of thousands of dollars across my lifetime in time alone, not chasing my tail.

It never ceases to amaze me just how blinded we still are, growing up in Plato's Cave.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

This could be useful…

 

[SBR Sarge]

I get the not cleaning barrel thing. Makes sense for the POA/POI issue. Hell, on the rifle team at college in 1980 we all fired one or two ‘fouling shots’ before shooting for score.

But what about preventing corrosion in the barrel? If a gun is shot often, v occasionally, does it make a difference? What about stainless v carbon barrel material?

And what of the action, especially in a semi-automatic? Though I no longer scrub my AR’s barrel, I like to pull out the BCG and give it some love.

What are the Rokslide thoughts on these?

And thanks to all who are sharing their knowledge, experience and points of view.

 

[Marbles]

Sounds like you're in the - " this thread, is a Epiphany, club".
Serious question. What did you learn in 400 posts, that you didn't already know?

Also, you may have missed where I talked about taking the time to compare shooting, over many days, in many climates, being of some usefulness, over hammering out them all at once. Nonsense, Really?

No, this thread confirms what I already observed. Hardly an epiphany.

Please show me where I said not to shoot in various conditions?

Please show me where I said someone should hammer out 1500+ rounds at once? Or, do you consider a few boxes to be volume shooting?

 

[mt terry d]

Pull those 5 flyers out and that's a great group!

In all seriousness, very good shooting. That's more impressive to me than any .25" 3-shot group.

My exact thoughts too!.
But after taking the S2H class I'm forbidden to use the "F" word

(I'd like to see what it'd do with a good shooter.)

It does give one a basis for confidence.

 

[Gstew1930]

My exact thoughts too!.
But after taking the S2H class I'm forbidden to use the "F" word

(I'd like to see what it'd do with a good shooter.)

It does give one a basis for confidence.

Fine tune that seating depth & you'll be ready to rock . Great shooting BTW

 

[Q_Sertorius]

I get the not cleaning barrel thing. Makes sense for the POA/POI issue. Hell, on the rifle team at college in 1980 we all fired one or two ‘fouling shots’ before shooting for score.

But what about preventing corrosion in the barrel? If a gun is shot often, v occasionally, does it make a difference? What about stainless v carbon barrel material?

And what of the action, especially in a semi-automatic? Though I no longer scrub my AR’s barrel, I like to pull out the BCG and give it some love.

What are the Rokslide thoughts on these?

And thanks to all who are sharing their knowledge, experience and points of view.

Not to get too much down a tangent, but I still run an oily patch down a rifle barrel if I am not shooting it regularly. And will clean the hell out of it before any long term storage and then oil it. In a humid climate, you can get pitting from copper jacketing attracting moisture and electrolyzing. A lot of the folks talking about never cleaning rifles are in relatively arid climates and are constantly using rifles. But I don’t clean the rifles I shoot every week. Except my rimfire. I clean the action on that a lot.

As for semi-automatics, I clean my AR and my carry pistol after every proficiency session. Neither are match or hunting weapons. Both are SHTF weapons. If I need to use my AR or my pistol it’s not to shoot at something 500 yards away that requires precision. It’s to eliminate an immediate and direct threat to me and mine. I’m not risking having the gas port be gummed up or the chamber being full of carbon or whatever. I clean the whole weapon from butt to muzzle and apply a very very light coat of CLP to appropriate areas. Absolute reliability and confidence in those weapons are essential to my peace of mind. And if someone else more high-speed, low drag than me says, “that wasn’t necessary for me when I was whacking tangos in East Bumfuckistan!” I don’t care.

 

[atmat]

in many climates, being of some usefulness

Just to confirm: are you saying climates impact the 100y zero? Or are you just saying practicing in different climates for your own sake?

 

[longrangelead]

Shot yesterday @ 27 degrees as fast as I could do my best shooting and reload a mamba mag.
prone over pack w/jellyfish rear bag.
Tikka with North of 4000 rounds in my own no clean test. Still doing OK I guess...