class, guide or just wing it?

[jsig]

lets just start by saying every ones financial situation is different so lets take that out of the equation here...

for the first year, what do you think would be most beneficial for a midwestern newbie... partaking in an elk/western game hunting course/class or paying a little more and going on a guided trip actually in-season and picking the brain of the guide (who may or may not be wanting said brain picked for tips)?



or a 3rd option would be consuming all available online information possible and then heading out west myself?

i know plenty of guys do exactly this so i guess my main question is what you guys think a newbie would get more out of between the guided hunt in unit, in season, boots on the ground or the off season class.


my initial lean is the class but im curious about y'alls take and open to suggestions on classes youve taken and liked or heard great things about.

 

[taskswap]

I'll give the unpopular answer: Do a DIY hunt in one of the most pressured, easiest-to-draw zones you can find. Talk to everyone there and drink it all in. Do your research in online forums and scouting tools, and pick the best spot you can dream up to go to opening morning. Shoot 'em if you see 'em, but otherwise listen for gunshots and take careful note of their direction and rough/relative distance. Plot those, then start looking for patterns. That'll give you a huge jump on what to look for from other successful hunters even if nobody is drawing pins on a map for you.

Elk behavior is very well documented in online blogs, video series, "Elk Hunting 101" sites, and so on. They can walk 30mi a day, so staking out a single area is (often) not productive (I suppose there must be exceptions, but I don't know anybody who hunts elk from a blind or tree stand). But they are also creatures of habit with daily cycles like watering every day, being extremely sensitive to smell ("they can hear you three times, see you twice, but only smell you once before they're gone", so hunt upwind as much as possible), etc.

Colorado used to have a fairly well-written (IMO) "Elk Hunting University" set of pages on their site, but they seem to be offline now. You can still find them in the WayBack Machine though (https://web.archive.org/web/20240412143419/https://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/EHU-CH1-L07.aspx). They're not perfect but I can think of a lot worse places to start. Maybe read all of that material and then come back with a more focused question if you still have one? Some of what you asked is too much "it depends". Lots of folks (most?) can't afford an outfitter/guide so that's not even a consideration for starting out. You need to talk more about your budget, experience hunting other big game, schedule (Rifle 3 is very different from Rifle 1), schedule again (can you go out a week early to do a solid period of pre-season scouting, or do you have to go in "blind"?), non-financial resources (hunting with a partner? do you have good optics to "glass" effectively?) and a lot more.

 

[Poser]

IMO, a class would be more beneficial after some real world experience is gained.

A guided situation would likely deliver the straightest path to success, though acquired skills from a guided hunt could be extremely variable. Assuming a guide knows where elk are and puts you in them, you've bypassed the most significant learning curve. You can of course ask questions and he can tell you why elk are in this area as opposed to others, but you then lack the tangible experience of choosing areas, the luxury of making mistakes in this selection process and the invaluable information learned from these mis selections when compared to choosing locations and in fact finding elk there. You need the data points of both success and failure in terms of finding animals.

For the cost of a single 1:1 guided hunt, you could probably go hunting for 3-5 years DIY. You go hunting for a week or however long you have (the more time, the better), you have some successes and some failures. Your odds of killing an elk are low, but it could happen. Regardless of the outcome, you go home and spend a year obsessing over what you did wrong and what you did right. Now the available information out there in the world really clicks for you. You come back and throw yourself at it again, experience more success and more failures, go home obsess over your performance for another year and come back again. You keep doing this. At some point in the process, you gain of enough experience to get "pretty good" at elk hunting. If you want to enjoy the process of becoming an elk hunter, this is probably the best way. If you want to kill an elk, hire a guide.

 

[3forks]

To the OP, your comment about picking the brain of the guide is accurate. Most aren’t going to want to teach you everything they know.

I used to guide fishing, and I would do my best to get clients into fish, but I never took any clients I hadn’t fished with before to my best spots. I cannot tell you how many times I had young guides tell me they did this and had their clients from the day before in those spots all day, the next day. You may book a hunt on private land where this isn’t an issue your guide or outfitter is worried about, but it will be if you hunt public.

Also, I would be helpful if someone needed help casting, but I wasn’t out there to teach someone everything I knew about fishing. Sure, I would give some general tips, but the worst place to learn to cast is on the river, so I would put someone in a spot or row the boat so that they could catch some fish. However, I was hired to help someone catch fish, not how to cast and teach them everything they need to know so they could go and do it on their own next time. Like my clients, you would definitely learn a few things that worked while you are with your guide, but you’re not going to learn it all.

Anyway, I mention this because you are guessing right that a lot of guides aren’t going to give you a clinic on how to hunt elk.

 

[35WhelenAI]

The guide is going to be more willing to invest in you by answering your questions if you have a modicum of knowledge coming in. Lots of information on the internet. You won't learn anything from a class that you won't be able to find yourself on the internet. I'd skip that. I learned it from Peterson's hunting magazine, outdoor life, anything that was on a newsstand back in the day. Terrain changes every year with new growth, new clear cut areas from logging, fires, etc. One year to the next is different even if you're in the same area in many cases. 29 Seasons now in colorado, continuous the same area, once you commit to an area it's important to learn that area inside and out, you will do better regardless of what the statistics show. It's a process, there's no learning curve that gets you to the top other than feet on the ground and time in the woods.

 

[TheTone]

I’d go guides or diy. Those classes are all just a grift by people that need to get real jobs.

 

[wapitibob]

Find somebody to partner with that has experience.
A boatload of guides are hired off craigslist prior to the hunt, you'd need to find a long term one. Cliff Gray, he'd be a good teacher/guide.

 

[jsig]

I'll give the unpopular answer: Do a DIY hunt in one of the most pressured, easiest-to-draw zones you can find. Talk to everyone there and drink it all in. Do your research in online forums and scouting tools, and pick the best spot you can dream up to go to opening morning. Shoot 'em if you see 'em, but otherwise listen for gunshots and take careful note of their direction and rough/relative distance. Plot those, then start looking for patterns. That'll give you a huge jump on what to look for from other successful hunters even if nobody is drawing pins on a map for you.

Elk behavior is very well documented in online blogs, video series, "Elk Hunting 101" sites, and so on. They can walk 30mi a day, so staking out a single area is (often) not productive (I suppose there must be exceptions, but I don't know anybody who hunts elk from a blind or tree stand). But they are also creatures of habit with daily cycles like watering every day, being extremely sensitive to smell ("they can hear you three times, see you twice, but only smell you once before they're gone", so hunt upwind as much as possible), etc.

Colorado used to have a fairly well-written (IMO) "Elk Hunting University" set of pages on their site, but they seem to be offline now. You can still find them in the WayBack Machine though (https://web.archive.org/web/20240412143419/https://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/EHU-CH1-L07.aspx). They're not perfect but I can think of a lot worse places to start. Maybe read all of that material and then come back with a more focused question if you still have one? Some of what you asked is too much "it depends". Lots of folks (most?) can't afford an outfitter/guide so that's not even a consideration for starting out. You need to talk more about your budget, experience hunting other big game, schedule (Rifle 3 is very different from Rifle 1), schedule again (can you go out a week early to do a solid period of pre-season scouting, or do you have to go in "blind"?), non-financial resources (hunting with a partner? do you have good optics to "glass" effectively?) and a lot more.

Ill check out that link, thanks.

And that's a good idea/tip on listening for gunshots and plotting them too. Just cause I didn't shoot one doesnt mean there isn't helpful info to be gained somewhere (there's always information, just have to know how to find it)

 

[jsig]

Find somebody to partner with that has experience.
A boatload of guides are hired off craigslist prior to the hunt, you'd need to find a long term one. Cliff Gray, he'd be a good teacher/guide.

Yea cliff was one of the classes that I was looking into. I've been soaking up his youtube and podcast here lately too. Seems to have a lot of good knowledge

 

[elkliver]

Time in the woods will make the biggest difference. Invest in a camping trip mid to late august and spend every day in the woods. Up before daylight, looking for sign, glassing etc. Pre trip, try and identify possible places that elk may live from you doing on line research and then when you go, see if you were right. You may not see elk, but you would definitely see sign if they are living there. For most hunts except late season, Elk will likely be in the same general areas as they were in late august... with pressure from hunters being the biggest thing that would move them before weather hits.

 

[rookieforever33]

Guided gives you the best chance at notching your tag. Show up knowing how to shoot helps earn you a little respect. Knowing how to listen and follow directions keeps it going. A guide that has a little respect for you will be better at showing you a few things. Overall they are paid to get you on game. Not teach you to hunt. Ive been on several and have learned a lot. But they did not prepare me for DIY.
You will learn more on a DIY than guided but chances of getting an animal drop drastically. If you are up to the challenge its worth it. I did not come from a hunting family and started whitetail hunting as an adult to help my nephew learn. Its been much more interesting.
The classes seem appealing. It falls in the middle and just like a guided hunt your guide/instructor could end up somewhere on a spectrum of knowledge sharing.
Each way has pros and cons. What fits you best is something only you can know.

 

[Ross]

3 give yourself a few years. If you believe you then need assistance, go on a guided hunt. It has never been easier to go from total greenhorn, to well above average in just a few years. Like anything it takes practical application, time and effort to elevate your game. This can all be done by yourself, with time in the mountains and online resources. Weed out the things that are minutia and not worth wasting too much time on, to actually make a difference.

 

[BCDJR]

Book a backcountry outfitted hunt with horses , tents and mules. Offer to help and pitch in with chores. You will learn a lot and have a great time.

 

[Jakeb]

Man just find a tag and go. Expect not to get one and enjoy it. Right now you don’t even know, what you don’t know. You’re gonna learn so much on your first trip.

 

[TaperPin]

All of the above. If you really want to jump in with both feet do everything you can elk related to elk. Keep in touch with everyone you meet - not only are they a good resource to answer questions, but you’ll eventually get invited to events, ranches, hunts, and backcountry trips you otherwise wouldn’t.

 

[Buckmarkhunter]

I used to live in NM after moving from the Midwest in my late 20s. It was way easier to draw a tag as a resident. I went on a couple diy hunts (3 in 7 yrs) Watched a ton of videos, talked with a bunch of locals guys and gained all the advice I could. It was a great experience and thankful I did it, but I realized I needed more gear for camp and less of other gear I thought I needed.

I now am crazy busy at work/family/life in my mid 40s and at a better financial place. Now I would just rather go out with a guide I trust and pay the price and have the odds in my favor for the best possible week.

 

[Next Ridge]

There is probably 5-10% difference in paid online classes and good online searching and free content

 

[longtail]

I wouldn't recommend the classes. I wouldn't say its rocket science. You just have to find the elk. Sometimes you can hear them before you see them. if you cant hear them you need to get to a place where you can see them. Then you just have to choose either DIY or guided. Ive done both. DIY public land hunting can be the toughest thing you can ever do mentally and physically. I would not recommend solo hunting DIY public land for your first time. It can be like finding a needle in a haystack if you have no prior knowledge. Guided hunts have been way more enjoyable. Just takes out a lot of the fear of the unknowns. It depends on what kind of personality you are? i myself don't need or like to be wined and dined and I like challenges and doing the work myself but I also put a lot of time and effort and money into hunting elk so at the end of the day I also want to put all the odds in my favor. Its hard to find but if you can find the best of both worlds that would be best case scenario. Maybe a Trespass fee self guided hunt on private land? do your research they are out there but few and far between.

 

[Chris in TN]

I've been on 3 guided elk hunts. On the first I shot an elk on the 2nd morning. On the second we doubled up on cows in the first hour. On the 3rd I shot a bull on the 3rd morning.

I honestly probably picked up a handful of things from the guide on the 3rd trip that are important. Observing how they dealt with scent/wind was very instructive to me.

Beyond that, ehhh, I learned very little. Had a great time. 10/10 would do it again every year if I had the money. But it won't teach you much. Guides on a tract of private land they're intimately familiar with will do things you won't understand and the better guides usually aren't the sort to get stuck on 'transmit' while out there. They're there to help you shoot an elk, not learn how to do it yourself. I've seen the same with people in construction; don't hire a builder that talks your ear off. Hire the guy that only answers his phone half the time. He's busy getting work done and can't talk.

Now, if you go guided on public land, yeah, I think you'd pick up a ton more. Public land is a different world, for sure, and I don't think a guide could drag you around without giving you some pointers to remember for the future.

As for classes, I think shooting/hunting classes are an awesome idea but I'd just personally prefer to figure it out on my own. Outside of those three guided elk hunts my life has been a nonstop string of DIY experience in every aspect of life and I'm just sort of bent that way, I guess. I absolutely believe such classes could teach me a lot. I'd just rather sort of figure it out at my own pace. YMMV. Do what you want. There's no wrong answer here.

 

[Weldor]

Do a landowner tag on your own, that way you can learn while you hunt and hopefully have some Elk that are in semi normal behavior mode.