Charging bear/timed shooting drill

[Formidilosus]

Some of this is technique. I have trained specifically not to grab the bolt in the past.
Basically the thumb stays on the rifle stock,
The hand rotates up pivoting on the thumb and catching the bolt handle with the webbing between the thumb and palm,
The bolt handle stays there as the hand pulls it back,
Once the bolt hits the back stop the hand keeps traveling back until the bolt handle is in front of the palm
Then the palm is used to bring the bolt into battery and the downward stroke becomes part of the motion to place the trigger hand back on the stock

Do you have a video of how you are racking it, and at speed too?

 

[Marbles]

Do you have a video of how you are racking it, and at speed too?

I'll get one made, it certainly is not what I described. I had worked on it with my Kimber, and assumed it was the same on the Tikka, but did not take the time to slow down and verify.

 

[Formidilosus]

I'll get one made, it certainly is not what I described. I had worked on it with my Kimber, and assumed it was the same on the Tikka, but did not take the time to slow down and verify.

Appreciate it.

 

[TaperPin]

An update on the MDT handle. So far, as it has always been below freezing when I shoot, I always have gloves on. I noticed that with the MDT handle I tended to grab the bolt to cycle it, even when I tried to use the palm of my hand I would find myself grabbing it with my fingers.

I pulled it off, and immediately saw about a 0.2 second drop in par times for this drill with the bare bolt, still in the cold, still wearing gloves. I have not put the MDT knob back on, and prefer not having it even when shooting slow in the prone.

Some of this is technique. I have trained specifically not to grab the bolt in the past.
Basically the thumb stays on the rifle stock,
The hand rotates up pivoting on the thumb and catching the bolt handle with the webbing between the thumb and palm,
The bolt handle stays there as the hand pulls it back,
Once the bolt hits the back stop the hand keeps traveling back until the bolt handle is in front of the palm
Then the palm is used to bring the bolt into battery and the downward stroke becomes part of the motion to place the trigger hand back on the stock

@Formidilosus may (with good reason I'm not aware of) call BS on the above. However, it is faster than grabbing the bolt, it relies on midsized muscle groups that maintain function better under duress, and the trigger hand is always physically in contact with the rifle, so at no point is the brain having to track both the rifle and the hands location (which becomes more difficult under stress). It also makes short stroking the bolt very unlikely.

The MDT bolt knob interfered with that, even after using it for 1000 or so rounds.

Edit: There are some inaccuracies in that description when it comes to a Tikka (I picked mine up to double check myself). The bolt handle is too far forward to naturally fall on the webbing, in fact when I pivot my hand up my fingers catch the handle close to the second knuckle of the pointer finger (this is probably why I always want to grab the bolt.

I don't have it to check, but I remember my Kimber being different, which is a good example of how changing platforms can have unexpected effects. I'm also now holding for a neutral thumb, and not wrapping the grip with my thumb, which places my hand further back on the stock.

I read an article on the increased speed that’s possible with manipulating the bolt with a larger bolt handle and more open hand, rather than grabbing a small round knob in the traditional way with the index finger and thumb. It sounded like a winner and with some practice it started to feel like it might be an improvement.

Unfortunately, when palming a bolt open and closing the bolt with a sweep of straight fingers and no thumb contact, it also straightens out all the fingers of the hand. As the bolt is closed and hand goes back to grab the pistol grip my pinky curved in and slapped the trigger a few times causing an unintentional discharge - that was a problem I didn’t know how to solve.

In the traditional bolt grab involving the thumb, it naturally curved all the fingers in tight where they stay out the way of the trigger - it might not be the fastest, but it does keep me out of trouble.

I find it fun to watch someone who can quickly cycle a bolt - reminds of of pistol quick draw. Lol

 

[Marbles]

Do you have a video of how you are racking it, and at speed too?

Longer bolt handle would help, you can see on cycle number 5 (second to last) my index binger misses the bolt and my middle finger catches it.

 

[Formidilosus]

Longer bolt handle would help, you can see on cycle number 5 (second to last) my index binger misses the bolt and my middle finger catches it.

That’s what I thought you were doing. Appreciate the video. But…. It won’t be faster than just grabbing the bolt. Also, that technique fails at times when you are in a bad position (weak arm/grip angle), and when you have heavy unlocking, extraction, and/or ejecting- in all cases resulting in the reversion to just grabbing the bolt.

I will time some shots to get the splits for the technique above, grabbing the bolt, and the Scandinavian skyting way.

 

[Marbles]

Well, I still prefer not having the MDT handle, however, the reasons I initially posted for why simply are not true. I should have paid more attention to what I was actually doing.

Prone, I still default to grabbing the handle. I'm playing with some different techniques for other positions and will see what I settle on.

 

[nick21]

The real test is how fast you can draw your handgun, shoot the guy next to you in the leg, and start running.




P

Don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than the guy behind ya haha

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Any Formula 1 fans here? I'd pay good money to watch a Lewis Hamilton vs @Formidilosus Charging Bear Timed Shooting Drill.

 

[Formidilosus]

Any Formula 1 fans here? I'd pay good money to watch a Lewis Hamilton vs @Formidilosus Charging Bear Timed Shooting Drill.

Not bad for a C class shooter.

 

[Fatcamp]

Not bad for a C class shooter.

LOL. A C class shooter is pretty good. Better than the vast majority of people, not that that's saying much.

 

[Formidilosus]

LOL. A C class shooter is pretty good. Better than the vast majority of people, not that that's saying much.

Oh compared to anyone that doesn’t compete, C class might as well be a magician.