Changing main hunting rifle, what to do?

[texag10]

I currently have a Tikka T3X rebarreled to 6.5-284 (carbon 6 barrel, 24", 1-7.5" twist) loaded with n565 and 156 gr Bergers. It's not unpleasant to shoot, but it's not exactly a light recoil impulse either, even with a suppressor. Rifle is in an Alterra arms stock with a SWFA 3-9 in sports match rings. Spotting shots from field positions can prove difficult. I'm trying to think of what, if anything to change. I hunt almost totally in CO, from 4k ft on the plains for antelope to 10k and above for bear and early elk seasons. I would like lighter recoil, but cannot go to a .224 caliber due to CO regs. I do reload and have VV N565, Varget, and CFE 223. I have plenty of AR lowers and uppers too

Options I am considering:

1.Try a 140gr bullet with a lighter powder charge (easiest to do, already have the components and will probably try at next range trip) to see how that impacts recoil and ability to see shots with my existing setup. Potentially switch to rokstock and see if the even more negative comb and flat bottom helps.

2. Rebarrel Tikka to 6-284 and shoot 108 ELDMs. Will cut down on recoil, lets me use existing dies, cases and powder with some small parts changes.

3. Rebarrel Tikka to 6CM. As above, but not sure if VV N565 will work well with it, and it means new cases and dies.

4. Build an AR upper in 6 ARC. Easy to do and I have an upper sitting with no barrel or BCG, and I have a .223 18" upper set up for a low cost training analog. I'd probably buy factory Hornady ammo if going this route, at least initially.

Money is a factor and I don't like spending on gear for the sake of spending, but all of these are doable without feeling like I overspent or making my wife upset. All options give me more effective range from a bullet standpoint than I will ever use on game.


What does the Rokslide hive mind say?

 

[WeiserBucks]

130-140 grain bullets and a better functioning stock will have a huge influence on perceived recoil.

 

[Macintosh]

Alterra stock already has butt higher than bore and a negative comb. From a recoil standpoint thats an excellent functioning stock already even compared to something like a rockstock that has a parallel bottom and even more of a neg comb than the alterra does—a rokstock would be better, but assuming you dont have any other issues with it would not be the best bang for your buck IMO as it might be if you were starting from a different stock. To me, if $$ is an issue, that’d be a second step, with your other options resulting in a bigger gain than that.

 

[KenLee]

Step down the bullet size. Step up the scope weight to a reliable scope with good glass.

 

[Formidilosus]

Alterra stock already has butt higher than bore and a negative comb.

The Alterra’s recoil pad is not above bore- it’s slightly below it. And, its grip geometry is poor enough that it is not really better than a factory stock. Truly one of the oddest stock made.

 

[Formidilosus]

Options I am considering:

1.Try a 140gr bullet with a lighter powder charge (easiest to do, already have the components and will probably try at next range trip) to see how that impacts recoil and ability to see shots with my existing setup.

This will make only a very slight difference. 130gr bullets a bit more. Neither will get you to be able to spot your own impacts without a lot of practice from anything other than perfect prone.

Potentially switch to rokstock and see if the even more negative comb and flat bottom helps.

That will help noticeably, but you will still be on the heavy side of recoil to consistently spot your own impacts.

2. Rebarrel Tikka to 6-284 and shoot 108 ELDMs. Will cut down on recoil, lets me use existing dies, cases and powder with some small parts changes.

This will help, and with a better stock will make it where you can spot your own impacts with optimum positioning, but it is still on the heavy side.

3. Rebarrel Tikka to 6CM. As above, but not sure if VV N565 will work well with it, and it means new cases and dies.

This is the answer. A 6cm in a properly designed stock is probably the best combination of shootability, external and terminal ballistics that exists right now.

4. Build an AR upper in 6 ARC. Easy to do and I have an upper sitting with no barrel or BCG, and I have a .223 18" upper set up for a low cost training analog. I'd probably buy factory Hornady ammo if going this route, at least initially.

AR’s are fun, but they are not a replacement for bolt actions.

Money is a factor and I don't like spending on gear for the sake of spending, but all of these are doable without feeling like I overspent or making my wife upset. All options give me more effective range from a bullet standpoint than I will ever use on game.


What does the Rokslide hive mind say?

I am abut people learning to shoot correctly, not buying new gear. However, a 6cm, with that scope (you may need higher rings), a suppressor, and a RokStok is about as good as it gets for Colorado- and is as near a one and done rifle as exists.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

Option 2 sounds perfect. I’m thinking about doing exactly that but rechambering a factory 1/8.

 

[jonpall]

This is the answer. A 6cm in a properly designed stock is probably the best combination of shootability, external and terminal ballistics that exists right now.


I am abut people learning to shoot correctly, not buying new gear. However, a 6cm, with that scope (you may need higher rings), a suppressor, and a RokStok is about as good as it gets for Colorado- and is as near a one and done rifle as exists.

Would your answer change to 22cm if he weren't in Colorado?

 

[Formidilosus]

Would your answer change to 22cm if he weren't in Colorado?

Yes. Unless he didn’t reload.

 

[Unckebob]

If you are going to go to a 6mm of some kind, it would be cheaper to buy a new Tikka than to have it rebarrel.

Can the current barrel be threaded for a brake or a can? I use a can exclusively and it really tames the recoil.

 

[JBradley500]

Hey, Form. What specifically about the AR keeps it from being a top contender along with bolt guns in your experience? I'm using a bolt ar this year (due to weight and compactness for my east coast/brush hunting) and would like to know what weaknesses I may not be aware of. Thanks.

 

[texag10]

Step down the bullet size. Step up the scope weight to a reliable scope with good glass.

It has a reliable scope with good glass. What would you suggest changing to?

The Alterra’s recoil pad is not above bore- it’s slightly below it. And, its grip geometry is poor enough that it is not really better than a factory stock. Truly one of the oddest stock made.

The grip area does suck out loud. The trigger reach is stupid.

AR’s are fun, but they are not a replacement for bolt actions.

Could you expand on this a bit? I think I've seen you mention a properly built AR has a lower failure rate in field conditions that almost any (maybe all) bolt guns, and you've hunted with a mk12.

If you are going to go to a 6mm of some kind, it would be cheaper to buy a new Tikka than to have it rebarrel.

Can the current barrel be threaded for a brake or a can? I use a can exclusively and it really tames the recoil.

The current barrel is threaded and I use a suppressor. If I rebarrel I have all the necessary equipment to mount a prefit myself. I'd definitely go stainless instead of carbon wrapped and go 18" or 20" for the length.

 

[KenLee]

It has a reliable scope with good glass. What would you suggest changing to?

In the thousand dollar range, Leica Amplus 6 or Trijicon accupoint 50mm.

If you think SWFA is good quality glass, you have been sucked in by the cult.
I use SWFA scopes on targets, but someone would have to steal over a dozen good scopes from me before I'd be forced to hunt with a SWFA.

 

[Formidilosus]

Hey, Form. What specifically about the AR keeps it from being a top contender along with bolt guns in your experience? I'm using a bolt ar this year (due to weight and compactness for my east coast/brush hunting) and would like to know what weaknesses I may not be aware of. Thanks.

While AR’s can be very precise, they are more critical of errors (especially large frame AR’s). They have a much longer lock time, almost all are effected by forend flex and POI shifts, and to get one setup for excellent shootability- they are heavier.

I shoot a lot of rounds from the AR family per year and a properly setup AR is one of the most useful tools made; but their use isn’t optimized for general hunting. Lots of targets, lots of shooting- yes. One or two targets- no.

 

[texag10]

It has a reliable scope with good glass. What would you suggest changing to?

In the thousand dollar range, Leica Amplus 6 or Trijicon accupoint 50mm.

If you think SWFA is good quality glass, you have been sucked in by the cult.
I use SWFA scopes on targets, but someone would have to steal over a dozen good scopes from me before I'd be forced to hunt with a SWFA.

I can see animals in legal hunting light well beyond ranges I have any business shooting.

Going to a SFP scope with stupid reticles seems like a pretty big step back to me.

 

[Macintosh]

The Alterra’s recoil pad is not above bore- it’s slightly below it. And, its grip geometry is poor enough that it is not really better than a factory stock. Truly one of the oddest stock made.

Top of butt is about 3/16” above bore centerline, as shown on a straight edge here. I wouldnt argue, but there is no question as I just happened to measure mine when the rokstock dimensions were first published. Recoil “flip” is also noticeably better than the factory stock. Sounds like OP doesnt really like the trigger reach so no loss, but having done a side by side with this and several other straight comb or factory stocks, I have to disagree that it’s not better, at least from a recoil standpoint it is objectively better than most.

 

[KenLee]

I can see animals in legal hunting light well beyond ranges I have any business shooting.

Going to a SFP scope with stupid reticles seems like a pretty big step back to me.

You aren't seeing game good enough to shoot 30 minutes after sunset in the woods or on cloudy evenings. You also aren't seeing the reticle in low light on low magnification.
Or if you do, your eyesight must be in the top 0.5% of the population.
The scope is certainly worthless an hour after sunset, which is the legal time in my state.

 

[Formidilosus]

Top of butt is about 3/16” above bore centerline, as shown on a straight edge here. I wouldnt argue, but there is no question as I just happened to measure mine when the rokstock dimensions were first published. Recoil “flip” is also noticeably better than the factory stock. Sounds like OP doesnt really like the trigger reach so no loss, but having done a side by side with this and several other straight comb or factory stocks, I have to disagree that it’s not better, at least from a recoil standpoint it is objectively better than most.




View attachment 732348

Hmmm. The one I just looked at was not above bore. I’m not sure if it was an earlier or later version maybe?

What is that inlet for?

 

[Formidilosus]

You aren't seeing game good enough to shoot 30 minutes after sunset in the woods or on cloudy evenings. You also aren't seeing the reticle in low light on low magnification.
Or if you do, your eyesight must be in the top 0.5% of the population.
The scope is certainly worthless an hour after sunset, which is the legal time in my state.

You can keep posting the same nonsense about SWFA, but hundreds of people do everyday what you say can’t be done.
I (and multiple other RS’ers) just spent two weeks with more than two dozen people using 6x, 10x, 3-9x, and 3-15x SWFA’s shooting up to total darkness- right next to people shooting S&B’s, Trijicons, NF’s, Vortex Razors, Zeiss, Maven, Leupold, and others. Not one person could see and shoot a target from less than 100y to over 800y that everyone with SWFA’s couldn’t also see and shoot as well.

 

[ljalberta]

You aren't seeing game good enough to shoot 30 minutes after sunset in the woods or on cloudy evenings. You also aren't seeing the reticle in low light on low magnification.
Or if you do, your eyesight must be in the top 0.5% of the population.
The scope is certainly worthless an hour after sunset, which is the legal time in my state.

It also could be your eyes. I have two 10MQs, a 6MQ and a 3-9, and they’re all fine.

I agree that option 3 is the way.