Camp road water bars & snow plowing?

[Macintosh]

Wondering if anyone has experience with gravel road maintenance and snow plowing that could give me some insight. I did a Google search, but did not find much.

My family has a cabin in the Adirondacks. There is an adjacent property that accesses their place via our road, which is a fairly steep gravel road about a quarter mile long. They are paying a local guy to plow as well as maintain the road so they can use it as a ski camp in the winter. We are having issues with frequent rain storms washing ruts in the road, normally would not be a big issue but it becomes a problem for plowing. The plow guy says he can’t put water bars in place due to needing a flat surface to plow. Due to our agreement with the neighbor we’re +\- on the hook for a portion of the cost of maintaining the road (not the plowing part, just keeping it maintained), but without an option for water bars to prevent these frequent washouts it has the potential to add up fast. My description of the arrangement between us is simplified, so please don’t comment on that.

However, I am wondering if anyone has experience with gravel work roads like this. I have seen some water bars that use an anchor in the gravel with a protruding, semi-flexible plastic “fin” that allows flexing to drive over it, but still stops water. I’m curious if something like this, or some other solution exists that would help with the water problems but still allow for plowing?

 

[Steve300xcw]

How crowned is the road?

 

[Pony Soldier]

Another possible solution might be to put in a diagonal depression over 10-15 ft about 1 ft deep to direct the water off the road over the edge.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

My living has been maintenance and installation/construction of gravel roads, and snow removal.

“Water Bars” or gravel “swells” can definitely be installed to get water off gravel roads while still allowing plowing. They do need to be moderate and gentle.

Steep crowns can really help as well, or even better, a full super drainage (road all sloped one direction) is even better IMO for plowing and longevity of your gravel road…..

The most important thing as you know, you definitely have got to get water off the road, to the edge of the road and underneath it (culverts) where applicable.

As far as plastic, or rubber fins to get water off roads… I’ve never seen anything that is going to hold up to a snowplow. They work ok on trails that are unplowed.

You can pm me if you want some more help or send me some pics of where you are having issues with erosion, etc

 

[Macintosh]

Thanks a ton, I really appreciate the replies. Travis, I’ll drop a line if I get to the point that more info is helpful, at this point I’m just trying to educate myself so I can have a semi-intelligent conversation with everyone about possibilities and what makes sense.

Currently the road is not crowned at all—it had been a old two-track with tire tracks and a ridge in the center, and road guy flattened it both for plowing as well as so they could get some equipment to the neighbors place for a renovation. Part of the deal is the neighbor needs to have the road completely reconstructed after the construction of their house, to return it to good condition after any heavy equipment, so if it needs significant re-crowning or something like that, that’s the opportunity to do it.

Crowning it would mean he would have to plow twice, correct? Once on one side, and once on the other? I’m fairly sure he flattened it so that he could plow the entire road in one pass (its one lane and not an inch wider).

 

[Steve300xcw]

Your plow guy "flattened" the road? Whats he plowing with? How wide and long is this road?

Have built a lot of road that was just insloped too.

 

[Macintosh]

Correct. It was a two-track with deepened tire tracks and a ridge down the middle. It was gravelled and graded flat. There is no crown or tilt to it whatsoever. I don’t know the technical terminology for any of this, so forgive me, if I’m not being specific enough. In most places, it’s in fine shape, but there are a couple steep sections where it collects water and washes out, no surprise there. It is one lane, call it exactly the width of a truck and no wider. It winds up a fairly steep slope so it does gain some altitude, although it does a pretty good job of following the most gradual path. Total road is about a quarter mile long, the problem sections are really two areas about 50 yards long each. I don’t know what he plows with.

 

[doc holiday13]

have your snow plow guy put plow shoes on his blade. Plow shoes lift the plow blade off the ground. he can leave 1-2" of snow on the road so it will still be passable but not tear up the road.

 

[Steve300xcw]

That short and narrow, I would just inslope it and call it a day.

 

[alecvg]

I wouldn’t waste money with water bars. You can slope it for the easiest fix, imo, the best long term fix would be to crown it, do a little ditching and install some culverts where needed.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

The problem with crowns on a narrow road like you are describing is a snow plow is going to take the crown down almost every time he plows when it thaws or gets the sun on it…..a constant slope or the road draining to the inside of hill like suggested above would be best to keep you all from sliding off hill …. (my guess is the road is cut into a mountain)

A good interior ditch with culverts getting water across should fix you right up.

 

[gbflyer]

We do this too for a living. What is the surface? Is it a lift of crushed gravel or is it something else, dirt, sand, native material of some sort? You’ll fight it forever if it isn’t something that will hold up to the rain. You can blade, shape, and ditch until you’re tired without good material and good elevation.

 

[Macintosh]

The problem with crowns on a narrow road like you are describing is a snow plow is going to take the crown down almost every time he plows when it thaws or gets the sun on it…..a constant slope or the road draining to the inside of hill like suggested above would be best to keep you all from sliding off hill …. (my guess is the road is cut into a mountain)

A good interior ditch with culverts getting water across should fix you right up.

Makes sense. Yes, it is cut into the side of a small mountain. Most of the road is crushed rock, already ditched with pretty good culverts where necessary. The main issues are some steeper downhill sections that arent angled into the hill, so any water is flowing downhill along the length of the road, not off the road into a ditch. It might take some considerable fill to angle the road bed there, but sounds like thats the missing element.

 

[N.ID7803]

Not sure if you found your solution. But you might look into making rolling dips in your road. This would have to be done in the summer most likely.

https://naparcd.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/11-Typical_Upgrade_Rolling_Dip_with_chart.pdf