Friend of mine had a similar situation. His father inherited a camp and the family grew up there. When he passed, it was left to him and his two sisters. They all get along great now but each sibling has 2 kids. They sat down and had a trust drawn up, basically staying what you are thinking. Each has a share and a responsibility, if they want out, no hard feelings but you just walk away and get nothing. I believe that if it is ever sold, all the siblings get a percentage but no one can force a sale. There are ways to do it fairly and equitably, talk to your family and have a lawyer draw it up. It was a short, easy thing to get together.
Camp Ownership. Structure
- Thread starter Jakerex
- Start date
You're right, 100%. I was just looking for some like-minded folks that have structured their camp as a Trust, Not-For-Profit, LLC, etc., and their reasoning why, so I could gain some knowledge in the area. Figured this would be a good place to those types of people.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Thanks!
Yes. Two have done it already, and the other two, yes, that is their intention.
Talk to an estate attorney. Trust me we did for our property and had my in laws do the same. Also watched all hell break loose with my step family who basically had something written somewhere that no one could find. Hear say doesn’t override state laws. Unforeseen circumstances are messy and so is the executor of the estate passing from cancer when everything is up in the air. You need something set up so that if an unexpected event happens to an owner then it’s documented as to what happens. You don’t want to do this after the fact because it will fall into state arbitration.
The most likely problem is an owner has financial problems and that asset gets seized or a lean on it.
Oh, if there is an easement for access those are typically void with change in ownership
The most likely problem is an owner has financial problems and that asset gets seized or a lean on it.
Oh, if there is an easement for access those are typically void with change in ownership
Watching a similar situation, real time with my in laws ranch. I like your plan. Need to set hard and fast rules/ guidelines / love how it’s either you get to come hunt or you can not be apart of it. Way too many cool properties fall to someone leaving something to a kid that wants nothing to do with it and ruins it for the rest of the family. I would pay a lawyer a trust sounds reasonable, not sure the size of the place, but a conservation easement can be a giant tax deduction if you have a big tax bill coming and it can outline a lot of things that make the place pretty much a hunting property for forever and discourage sale…
ozyclint
WKR
Hmmm, so if you want out you have to leave with nothing, except if you're lucky last, in which case you can sell it.
Sounds like a raw deal again.
Real estate guy here:
With your stated goals, your best bet is to have all parties draw up trust docs with your favorite RE lawyer and rock on.
As generations add up, tenants in common type ownership is a cluster of epic proportions if even one person with a fraction of an ownership interest decides they want to run their own play.
Put it in a trust, make everyone a beneficiary and then you skip all kinds of legal drama as people come/go
With your stated goals, your best bet is to have all parties draw up trust docs with your favorite RE lawyer and rock on.
As generations add up, tenants in common type ownership is a cluster of epic proportions if even one person with a fraction of an ownership interest decides they want to run their own play.
Put it in a trust, make everyone a beneficiary and then you skip all kinds of legal drama as people come/go
wapitibob
WKR
4 owners is a pain in the ass, been there, couldn't imagine 6-8 down the road.
Handing down a family hunting camp from siblings to the next gen is smart, but joint deed ownership like tenancy in common can turn into a shitshow with disputes, uneven shares, or probate headaches. Here's the real deal
Go LLC hand down the winner. It's a simple entity where you deed the property to the LLC, and family members own shares flexible percentages, easy to pass down. Pros Shields personal assets from lawsuits e.g., someone twists an ankle, clear operating agreement spells out rule's usage, costs, buyouts, simpler transfers without probate. Cons: Minor setup fees $100-500 lawyer for the agreement and annual state filings $50. Perfect for keeping it in the bloodline without drama.
Skip nonprofit. That's for social clubs with dues/voting 501 c7, not private family stuff too much paperwork, IRS hoops, and no real perks here.
Tenancy in common? Nah, that's basically what you have now easy but no liability protection, and death means probate mess for heirs.
Hit up a local real estate lawyer hunting land specialists if possible for a custom op agreement. I've seen families save fortunes and relationships this way. Do it now before the handoff. Good luck keeping the tradition alive!
Go LLC hand down the winner. It's a simple entity where you deed the property to the LLC, and family members own shares flexible percentages, easy to pass down. Pros Shields personal assets from lawsuits e.g., someone twists an ankle, clear operating agreement spells out rule's usage, costs, buyouts, simpler transfers without probate. Cons: Minor setup fees $100-500 lawyer for the agreement and annual state filings $50. Perfect for keeping it in the bloodline without drama.
Skip nonprofit. That's for social clubs with dues/voting 501 c7, not private family stuff too much paperwork, IRS hoops, and no real perks here.
Tenancy in common? Nah, that's basically what you have now easy but no liability protection, and death means probate mess for heirs.
Hit up a local real estate lawyer hunting land specialists if possible for a custom op agreement. I've seen families save fortunes and relationships this way. Do it now before the handoff. Good luck keeping the tradition alive!
These never work long term. I have a friend who has a family has a camp in tionesta, and now no goes because of the fighting.
I now own a cabin it sounds like in the same region of PA.
My family bought it in the 50’s and it had been passed down. When my dad passed away a couple years ago he wanted the same thing and left it to me and my siblings. After putting over $8,000 and a ton of time into fixing it I had enough. Nobody wanted to chip in. They all thought it was good enough and I wanted it to be nicer. Two different ideas of what upkeep is and what property maintenance was the issue.
Luckily we all get along. Everyone agreed to give it to me. I get it all season hunting season, but luckily I’m the only one that hunts and that was easily agreed. Everyone else gets the rest of the year to pick dates.
BUT, now the wife and I are in the same spot as my dad. How do we keep it in the family without making everyone mad.
I now own a cabin it sounds like in the same region of PA.
My family bought it in the 50’s and it had been passed down. When my dad passed away a couple years ago he wanted the same thing and left it to me and my siblings. After putting over $8,000 and a ton of time into fixing it I had enough. Nobody wanted to chip in. They all thought it was good enough and I wanted it to be nicer. Two different ideas of what upkeep is and what property maintenance was the issue.
Luckily we all get along. Everyone agreed to give it to me. I get it all season hunting season, but luckily I’m the only one that hunts and that was easily agreed. Everyone else gets the rest of the year to pick dates.
BUT, now the wife and I are in the same spot as my dad. How do we keep it in the family without making everyone mad.
They will be paying taxes and making decisions on maintenance, upkeep, improvements, etc.
The camps I been involved in all dissolved due to disputes between family members. The more folks involved, the more likely there will be issues. That's what you have to protect about.
benjohnson311
FNG
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2020
- Messages
- 20
Our Family ranch was set up as a Partnership with an LLC as the General Partner by my Grandfather. We no longer personally own the land, but shares in the partnership. There are rules in place about voting on the General Partner, what the GP can do without a vote, and a requirement for an 80% threshold of shareholders to sell the property. If someone wanted to sell their shares to another party, those would be non-voting shares, essentially making them worthless outside of our current setup.
As our parents get older(70’s), it’s nice to know that my cousins and I can continue to use the place and have a set of rules/guidelines to keep conflict at a minimum.
To address varying interests between the owners, as well as fairness for users/non-users, we do a hunting lease for those that still hunt. They pay a small fee that covers extra insurance and then also an agreed upon amount for lease expenses(blinds, feed, brush clearing, etc.) During non-hunting season, anyone is allowed to use it whenever they want.
As our parents get older(70’s), it’s nice to know that my cousins and I can continue to use the place and have a set of rules/guidelines to keep conflict at a minimum.
To address varying interests between the owners, as well as fairness for users/non-users, we do a hunting lease for those that still hunt. They pay a small fee that covers extra insurance and then also an agreed upon amount for lease expenses(blinds, feed, brush clearing, etc.) During non-hunting season, anyone is allowed to use it whenever they want.
Laelkhunter
WKR
I would think the biggest problem would be if an "owner" passes away, will his heirs force the remaining partners to pay the heirs their share, or even force them to sell the camp to give them their share? Family can become real ugly when it comes down to money and a sibling thinking someone else is getting more than they should be. Drawing up trusts, etc might cost some money but it will certainly be worth it.
If nothing else, the members/owners can have a will drawn up or present will amended to include the property and how it will be handled after the member's death. Sounds like a can of worms.
If nothing else, the members/owners can have a will drawn up or present will amended to include the property and how it will be handled after the member's death. Sounds like a can of worms.
Greed is real as seen by a few comments in this thread. Glad you at getting ahead of it now while everyone is in agreement how the property will be used.
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Choupique
WKR
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2022
- Messages
- 988
Get a lawyer involved. A trust is probably the best thing to do.
Pharmseller
WKR
Nothing concrete to add other than to complement your foresight.
Clear structure leads to clear expectations.
Clear structure leads to clear expectations.
In these types of situations how do you make other owners chip in for repairs?
In my situation no one ever completely finished the cabin. It’s been drywall and warped paneling since the 70’s.
I want it to be nice for the next generation. No one wants to chip for upgrades or the bills. It also needs a new roof. Nobody wanted to split the cost since I use it the most. So I did offer to buy so it wouldn’t turn into a fight later, but I was fortunate nobody wanted a dime.
I guess I don’t understand how you can make someone pay if they don’t agree with the repair or have the money. But I’m not a lawyer.
I’m curious because I would like to set this up for the next generation.
In my situation no one ever completely finished the cabin. It’s been drywall and warped paneling since the 70’s.
I want it to be nice for the next generation. No one wants to chip for upgrades or the bills. It also needs a new roof. Nobody wanted to split the cost since I use it the most. So I did offer to buy so it wouldn’t turn into a fight later, but I was fortunate nobody wanted a dime.
I guess I don’t understand how you can make someone pay if they don’t agree with the repair or have the money. But I’m not a lawyer.
I’m curious because I would like to set this up for the next generation.
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