Bullet Performance Database

[AkMtnRunner]

I think it would be good to build a database of bullet performance. We could submit entries into a google form or something similar for each experience. I would think that with the combined experience of many here, we could compile a significant amount, but more importantly, organized and easily searchable specific information rather than having to sift through thousands of posts. For example, if I had a hard time deciding between two bullets, and my main concern was performance at a certain impact velocity range, I could easily look through a sortable table for those bullets, and see records of impact placement and velocities, animal info, and results (both quantifiable like approximate time and distance to incapacitation as well as subjective notes).

The ultimate goal is to learn how bullets have performed on game. Not about the cartridge used nor about shooting distance, and not even accuracy. Simply how the bullet affected the animal. The only reason to include muzzle velocity would be along with the twist rate to approximate the spin rate at impact as that may be useful. Otherwise, the cartridge (muzzle velocity) and shooting distance is irrelevant to this project.

My first draft of information to collect is below. This would certainly need to be worked on with input from folks with better knowledge than me. Also, if someone such as that is willing to take this on, I would happily turn it over to them.

Bullet Info
Make
Name
Weight
Caliber
Rifle twist rate
Muzzle Velocity

Animal Info
Species
Sex
Relative size for it’s species and sex
Physiological activation level

1st Bullet Impact Info
Impact velocity
Animal position (standing, laying, etc)
Animal orientation (need a common convention)
Behavior Upon First Impact

Follow Up Impact Info
Were additional shots needed
How many additional shots were used
[additional impact info]

Results
Approximate time to incapacitation
Approximate distance to incapacitation
Paragraph description of death
Skeletal system damage
Pulmonary system damage
Cardiac system damage
Nervous system damage

 

[SDHNTR]

Doesn’t this already exist? Every bullet manufacturer out there tells you how their bullets are designed to work. What more are you looking for?

 

[hereinaz]

IMO, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. But, I will offer some suggestions to improve the design and make it more useful. If someone did the work, it’s not a terrible idea.

Tor a couple or comments, require actual measurements like width of chest of animal, not relative size.

To make the data sortable and useful, make them select from list like for activity standing, walking, running. And another list for calm, alert, horny, scared…

I would focus on other ways to hone the questions, get it dialed in and succinct. Those are two that hit me right off.

For shot placement, create a picture with a grid overlaid so they can call out their hit like battleship and you can plot it and sort other factors by it.

Include a drop down list for heart, lung, double lung, liver, guts, Texas heart shot, etc as a list and allow multiple selections.

Additionally, some of the information is subjective and wouldn’t be much use to me.

To anyone who objectively looks at the significant amount of information without preconceived emotions, any meaningful data that we could extract is self evident. If a person is not objective, the compiled data won’t convince them.

Given the above, the effort for me to give you that data isn’t worth it.

My personal data set tells me that the biggest factor by far is shot placement. And, any copper jacketed “match” or hunting bullet in the boiler room ends in suitably rapid death.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

Doesn’t this already exist? Every bullet manufacturer out there tells you how their bullets are designed to work. What more are you looking for?

If that were the case, we wouldn't needed to discuss bullet performance here. I am looking to compile actual real world data into a format that is much easier to navigate.

. . . require actual measurements like width of chest of animal, not relative size.

Getting that level of data is troublesome. The relative size may not even be important.

To make the data sortable and useful, make them select from list like for activity standing, walking, running. And another list for calm, alert, horny, scared…

I would focus on other ways to hone the questions, get it dialed in and succinct. Those are two that hit me right off.

I am right on the same page there with you. Drop downs would be used as much as reasonable and formats will be standardized.

For shot placement, create a picture with a grid overlaid so they can call out their hit like battleship and you can plot it and sort other factors by it.

Include a drop down list for heart, lung, double lung, liver, guts, Texas heart shot, etc as a list and allow multiple selections.

Additionally, some of the information is subjective and wouldn’t be much use to me.

Any room for subjective information is just a place to include other notable bits that may be unique but notable. Better to have that info available and choose to disregard it, than to have a dataset taken out of context.

To anyone who objectively looks at the significant amount of information without preconceived emotions, any meaningful data that we could extract is self evident. If a person is not objective, the compiled data won’t convince them.

Given the above, the effort for me to give you that data isn’t worth it.

My personal data set tells me that the biggest factor by far is shot placement. And, any copper jacketed “match” or hunting bullet in the boiler room ends in suitably rapid death.

I don't expect this database to offer much additional advantage to many around here with an interest in bullet performance. I do think this could help others arrive at a comparable level though.

This is probably also just to satisfy my desire to organize data.

 

[BooneHunter]

Guys - I’m working on this exact thing. Check it out, I have it in a working prototype stage. Let me know what you think.

TerminalHub — Real World Terminal Performance Data

terminalhub.app

 

[hand skills]

To me there is so much variability in shot placement, it's really hard to correlate actual terminal performance to numbers on paper.

These days I'm only really interested in actual photos of entrance, exit and internal damage.

Shot placement, should be self evident in the photos.

Beyond that, few details are required

Bullet:
Impact velocity
Twist rate:
Muzzle velocity:
Total depth of penetration (or an estimate if it's a pass through)
Width of the permanent wound channel

Terminal performance threads on this forum (and others) can be great for this type of information. I love statistics and data, but personally, and in this context I struggle to see the value simply because variability in shot placement is so difficult to qualify (in text).

 

[BooneHunter]

To me there is so much variability in shot placement, it's really hard to correlate actual terminal performance to numbers on paper.

These days I'm only really interested in actual photos of entrance, exit and internal damage.

Shot placement, should be self evident in the photos.

Beyond that, few details are required

Bullet:
Impact velocity
Twist rate:
Muzzle velocity:
Total depth of penetration (or an estimate if it's a pass through)
Width of the permanent wound channel

Terminal performance threads on this forum (and others) can be great for this type of information. I love statistics and data, but personally, and in this context I struggle to see the value simply because variability in shot placement is so difficult to qualify (in text).

i agree. the approach i took in the app i'm working on is a mix of drop down entries, photos, and story. the more complete the entry, the higher the confidence score the entry gets. i tried to make it as simple as possible for people to create an entry while trying to capture enough detail.

i put in a lot of my own kills, and the data from my own experiences looking at them side by side was revealing.

 

[SDHNTR]

If that were the case, we wouldn't needed to discuss bullet performance here. I am looking to compile actual real world data into a format that is much easier to navigate.

Well, it’s doesn’t really need to be discussed so much here either. This site has a weird fascination/obsession with bullet performance. There really aren’t any bad bullets out there these days. Pick the one that is accurate in your barrel and suitable for your task. Then put it in the right place and stuff dies. It really is that simple.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

Guys - I’m working on this exact thing. Check it out, I have it in a working prototype stage. Let me know what you think.

TerminalHub — Real World Terminal Performance Data

terminalhub.app

Pretty cool. I like the user interface. I just submitted my last hunt into your app. I liked the info that is collected but could use a few more pieces. When there's more records, could the data be in tabular form to see differences among similar bullets and animals?

I do have my critiques, but that's just me and reflects how I personally would want to look at available data. For example, there's a high score awarded for having pictures; and that might be desired for many folks, but to weight having the pic or not so heavily into a bullet's score is problematic. It seems that the goal of the app is to make an overall judgement of a cartridge. I guess that's okay. I would just rather see the raw data to see differences in objective data points such as directly comparing time and distance traveled to death. Perhaps if I have more time, I'll enter data for the half dozen other moose I've killed with different cartridges.

 

[BooneHunter]

Thanks for checking it out, very cool to have a moose on there! Once there’s enough entries we will be able to get a lot of insights, and it can be presented in tabular form, filtered and sorted based on cartridge/bullet/species, etc.

There are two scores in the app. The terminal performance score is simply the time it takes animal to expire, the distance traveled, and blood trail. Time is the biggest factor. This score is independent of bullet, caliber, catridge, bow, gun. it just speaks to the outcome.

The confidence score is based on the completeness of the entry. Having pics are not required, but doing so is the evidence supporting the rest of the data entered, and as a result, higher confidence in the data. This is to encourage legit entries.

Thanks again I really appreciate your thoughts!

 

[AkMtnRunner]

Thanks for explaining the difference between the performance and confidence. I probably glossed over that part if it was in the app.