Bull down 30 Nos 220 LRHT

Clark33

WKR
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
373
Location
Moxee, WA
I just had some 6.5 153.5's loaded up for my PRC. Plan on using them next season, glad to hear they seem to be working without drilling the tips.
 

Pokoki

FNG
Joined
Jan 6, 2022
Messages
25
I was fortunate to fill my tag this morning with my newly built 30 Nosler, and... it was with the newish 220 Berger LRHT.
MV was 2975, I shot him at 300 yards at a -30 degree angle.

The bullet entered rear liver, and passed through under the offside scapula lodging in the fur in his chest.
He made it about 30 yards and swayed a few times before going down.

The bullet opened beautifully and also held together well, the recovered portion weighed 118 grains.
The lungs were shredded nicely, I've been Berger hesitant for awhile but I'm impressed
View attachment 335577View attachment 335578View attachment 335579View attachment 335581
Great pics
 

zrodwyo

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Aug 18, 2017
Messages
203
Location
Wyo
I doubt clearing out the tips does much of anything.

Open tip match bullets don’t expand in the conventional sense like a hollow point (hydraulic). They destabilize and the nose collapses or shears off.
 
OP
762 ULTRAMAGA
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,202
Location
northwest
I want to post an update on my thoughts on how these 220 lrhts performed.
I reread my post from last season that was done in haste right after I got my bull, and I see I failed to mention I shot him twice, I was focused on the expansion of the one bullet I recovered and didn't discuss the other one I put in nearly the exact same spot.
He ran off after the initial shot and stopped for approx 20 seconds until I sent that second shot into the vitals, not saying he wouldn't have gone down without it but it should be added to the results because it definitely contributed to the internal damage I reported.

After shooting a buck at 530 yards the next month that ran over 1/4 mile I started to question how well these actually performed terminally.

So this season I decided to run the 225 eldm for a comparison.
I killed a bull in archery season this year but my wife used my 30 nos on her cow elk sending a 225 center lung at 200 yards impact velocity around 2600 fps. I can say without a doubt the eldm kills much faster and leaves a tremendous wound cavity!
The elk didn't even take a step just dropped like it was a head shot .

Combine all that with two other kills I made this season with the 180 vldh and I retract my statements about the lrht opening up in classic Berger fashion.
Those smaller 180s wrecked havoc on my whitetail and antelope, creating much more internal trauma than the bigger 220 lrlts.
Anyway I just wanted to update my findings, the lrht will certainly expand and kill but not as fast as I prefer. I sold all mine off and will stick to eldms or vldh
 

Flyjunky

WKR
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
1,325
I want to post an update on my thoughts on how these 220 lrhts performed.
I reread my post from last season that was done in haste right after I got my bull, and I see I failed to mention I shot him twice, I was focused on the expansion of the one bullet I recovered and didn't discuss the other one I put in nearly the exact same spot.
He ran off after the initial shot and stopped for approx 20 seconds until I sent that second shot into the vitals, not saying he wouldn't have gone down without it but it should be added to the results because it definitely contributed to the internal damage I reported.

After shooting a buck at 530 yards the next month that ran over 1/4 mile I started to question how well these actually performed terminally.

So this season I decided to run the 225 eldm for a comparison.
I killed a bull in archery season this year but my wife used my 30 nos on her cow elk sending a 225 center lung at 200 yards impact velocity around 2600 fps. I can say without a doubt the eldm kills much faster and leaves a tremendous wound cavity!
The elk didn't even take a step just dropped like it was a head shot .

Combine all that with two other kills I made this season with the 180 vldh and I retract my statements about the lrht opening up in classic Berger fashion.
Those smaller 180s wrecked havoc on my whitetail and antelope, creating much more internal trauma than the bigger 220 lrlts.
Anyway I just wanted to update my findings, the lrht will certainly expand and kill but not as fast as I prefer. I sold all mine off and will stick to eldms or vldh
Have you thought about using the 215’s in that 30nos? That’s like a match made in heaven. The 215 sure is devastating.
 
OP
762 ULTRAMAGA
Joined
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Messages
1,202
Location
northwest
Have you thought about using the 215’s in that 30nos? That’s like a match made in heaven. The 215 sure is devastating.
Yeah I've had pretty good luck with them in the past but I did have one fail to expand on a nice bull, it literally penciled right through and the bull walked off. I got another one in him that dropped him in his tracks but it kinda left me uneasy.
Maybe drilling the tips would help..

I have a couple boxes of 245s to try in my 300 NMI that I'm building, I actually sold the 30 Nos to go with a 20" barrel for suppressed hunting.
I stepped up the the NMI to get some speed back..
 

Flyjunky

WKR
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
1,325
Yeah I've had pretty good luck with them in the past but I did have one fail to expand on a nice bull, it literally penciled right through and the bull walked off. I got another one in him that dropped him in his tracks but it kinda left me uneasy.
Maybe drilling the tips would help..

I have a couple boxes of 245s to try in my 300 NMI that I'm building, I actually sold the 30 Nos to go with a 20" barrel for suppressed hunting.
I stepped up the the NMI to get some speed back..
Did you do a custom throat for your 30nos?
 

pluckem

FNG
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
4
Yeah I've had pretty good luck with them in the past but I did have one fail to expand on a nice bull, it literally penciled right through and the bull walked off. I got another one in him that dropped him in his tracks but it kinda left me uneasy.
Maybe drilling the tips would help..

I have a couple boxes of 245s to try in my 300 NMI that I'm building, I actually sold the 30 Nos to go with a 20" barrel for suppressed hunting.
I stepped up the the NMI to get some speed back..
I recently purchased a large lot of 220 LRHT. Was planning to switch from 230 hybrids I have been running in my 300NM improved. To be clear, I haven't even shot the 220's yet. The results on a cow elk with the 230 has me questioning shooting any Berger let alone moving to the 220's from the 230's.

Long story shorter... cow elk, 500yd, 230gr hybrid, 3030fps muzzle velocity, 1-9 twist. First shot penciled right through chest cavity. Cow ran through 20yds of thick brush and then stood still (in open window) with no signs of a hit or blood for probably over 4 minutes. No follow up shot was taken until I reasonably confirmed the cow standing in the opening was the same cow I shot at. At that point made a second shot, cow buckled and hunched over, stumbled some and fell over within 10yds of where it was standing for the second shot.

Inspection revealed the first and second shot hit within 2" of each other. First shot penciled completely through. No blood at all in that 20yds it ran from 1st shot to 2nd shot. No entrance wound or blood visible on elk as I studied it at 25x over that 4 minute span. Complete luck that cow stood there and allowed that second shot. Could have easily bolted and been 2 ridges over in that 4 minute window. I clear all tips on 230's with micro drill bit and make it a priority to baby the rounds in the field.

I guess my main point in posting this is even the proven 230 hybrid fails. Undecided on the direction I am going to go from here.
 
OP
762 ULTRAMAGA
Joined
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Messages
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Location
northwest
I recently purchased a large lot of 220 LRHT. Was planning to switch from 230 hybrids I have been running in my 300NM improved. To be clear, I haven't even shot the 220's yet. The results on a cow elk with the 230 has me questioning shooting any Berger let alone moving to the 220's from the 230's.

Long story shorter... cow elk, 500yd, 230gr hybrid, 3030fps muzzle velocity, 1-9 twist. First shot penciled right through chest cavity. Cow ran through 20yds of thick brush and then stood still (in open window) with no signs of a hit or blood for probably over 4 minutes. No follow up shot was taken until I reasonably confirmed the cow standing in the opening was the same cow I shot at. At that point made a second shot, cow buckled and hunched over, stumbled some and fell over within 10yds of where it was standing for the second shot.

Inspection revealed the first and second shot hit within 2" of each other. First shot penciled completely through. No blood at all in that 20yds it ran from 1st shot to 2nd shot. No entrance wound or blood visible on elk as I studied it at 25x over that 4 minute span. Complete luck that cow stood there and allowed that second shot. Could have easily bolted and been 2 ridges over in that 4 minute window. I clear all tips on 230's with micro drill bit and make it a priority to baby the rounds in the field.

I guess my main point in posting this is even the proven 230 hybrid fails. Undecided on the direction I am going to go from here.
That's very simular to an experience I had with an elk that I shot with 215 hybrids, bottom line is I'm having excellent results with berger hunting bullets and 225 eldms.
Berger target bullets just haven't expanded very well, or as consistently enough for me to continue hunting with them .
 

ElkPRC

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
Messages
124
Did you do any prep with a small drill bit on the LRHT or straight out of the box?
Drilling out bergers is a useless exercise that is more likely to lead to inconsistencies in BC than actually aid in expansion. Bergers do not "expand" traditionally or even really at all and the size of the opening or the existence of an opening at all has no impact on the bullet tearing apart. Expansion is cause from yawing of the bullet after entering the animal and the three main things that will affect the "expansion" or bullet falling apart is velocity, jacket thickness, and the size of the cavity or empty space underneath the jacket behind the meplat of the projectile. This cavity is typically where the jacket will tear apart from the stress once enough yaw is induced. A fourth thing that can play a part in this process is the stability of the projectile. I theorize that most people that experience a "pencil through" result with bergers would be due to a fully or overly stabile projectile that does not hit any major obstruction. If a projectile is dynamically unstable it will yaw much easier once entering the terminal media(animal) and even if the projectile is extremely stabile it can be forced to yaw by hitting an obstruction causing stress on the bullet making it frangible. But to be clear a berger will not expand like an ELD-X or other traditional expanding bullets with a larger frontal diameter mushroom steering its way through the animal. "Expansion" will always occur as a certain amount of yaw meets a certain amount of velocity to in turn tear it apart. This is a main reason why most people who hunt large game with bergers recommend high shoulder shots to intentionally meet a little bit of resistance to assist the "expansion."
 

ElkPRC

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Dec 18, 2021
Messages
124
What’s your testing method?

I’m shooting the 135gr .257 LRHTs, so far 3 antelope and a mule deer buck killed with excellent performance from 275 out to 495 yards. I did drill the tips but curious what your testing methods are because it did seem to affect BC slightly
Never drill the tips. One of the major points behind the 220 LHRT is the pointed tip from the factory that will aid in meplat uniformity giving it a more consistent BC from shot to shot. By modifying this you are directly counteracting the benefits of this projectile. Not to mention that the expansion characteristics of berger bullets are not added in any way by doing so. Contrary to what appears to be popular belief on here BTHP rifle projectiles do not mushroom back and expand from hydrostatic pressure created in the hollow point.
 
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
2,291
Never drill the tips. One of the major points behind the 220 LHRT is the pointed tip from the factory that will aid in meplat uniformity giving it a more consistent BC from shot to shot. By modifying this you are directly counteracting the benefits of this projectile. Not to mention that the expansion characteristics of berger bullets are not added in any way by doing so. Contrary to what appears to be popular belief on here BTHP rifle projectiles do not mushroom back and expand from hydrostatic pressure created in the hollow point.
I’ve been essentially uniforming the meplat diameter rather than “opening” them up. Some of them it doesn’t remove any material some of them it will remove a tiny bit, the end result is all the holes are about the same diameter. Killed around 12 animals with them now including a cow elk with good performance.

Curious what your background/experience is with Berger expansion? Not questioning the validity, always interested to learn
 
OP
762 ULTRAMAGA
Joined
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Drilling out bergers is a useless exercise that is more likely to lead to inconsistencies in BC than actually aid in expansion. Bergers do not "expand" traditionally or even really at all and the size of the opening or the existence of an opening at all has no impact on the bullet tearing apart. Expansion is cause from yawing of the bullet after entering the animal and the three main things that will affect the "expansion" or bullet falling apart is velocity, jacket thickness, and the size of the cavity or empty space underneath the jacket behind the meplat of the projectile. This cavity is typically where the jacket will tear apart from the stress once enough yaw is induced. A fourth thing that can play a part in this process is the stability of the projectile. I theorize that most people that experience a "pencil through" result with bergers would be due to a fully or overly stabile projectile that does not hit any major obstruction. If a projectile is dynamically unstable it will yaw much easier once entering the terminal media(animal) and even if the projectile is extremely stabile it can be forced to yaw by hitting an obstruction causing stress on the bullet making it frangible. But to be clear a berger will not expand like an ELD-X or other traditional expanding bullets with a larger frontal diameter mushroom steering its way through the animal. "Expansion" will always occur as a certain amount of yaw meets a certain amount of velocity to in turn tear it apart. This is a main reason why most people who hunt large game with bergers recommend high shoulder shots to intentionally meet a little bit of resistance to assist the "expansion."i

indentation​

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Synonyms of indentation
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huntnful

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Central CA
I have another 300 NMI showing up pretty soon. I shot 230 Hybrids last year, they performed great at 500 yards, but only decent at 900 yards on a couple of bucks. I'm hoping to switch to the 225 ELDm's for this season if the new barrel likes them. I have 225 ELDM, 230 A-tip, 230 Hybrid Target, 215 Hybrid Target and 220 LRHT's to test out. But the ELDM is the main goal. I view it as a tipped berger with more consistently violent expansion.
 

Ucsdryder

WKR
Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
5,730
I have another 300 NMI showing up pretty soon. I shot 230 Hybrids last year, they performed great at 500 yards, but only decent at 900 yards on a couple of bucks. I'm hoping to switch to the 225 ELDm's for this season if the new barrel likes them. I have 225 ELDM, 230 A-tip, 230 Hybrid Target, 215 Hybrid Target and 220 LRHT's to test out. But the ELDM is the main goal. I view it as a tipped berger with more consistently violent expansion.
I’ll be putting 225 eldms through my new 300prc. I’m hoping they perform as well as the 180s have in my 7saum.
 

huntnful

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I’ll be putting 225 eldms through my new 300prc. I’m hoping they perform as well as the 180s have in my 7saum.
I have close buddies that have wreaked havoc with 147 and 180 ELDM's. Dozens of animals. I can't imagine the 225 would be anything but even more devastating 👊
 

Ucsdryder

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Joined
Jan 24, 2015
Messages
5,730
I have close buddies that have wreaked havoc with 147 and 180 ELDM's. Dozens of animals. I can't imagine the 225 would be anything but even more devastating 👊
Exactly my thought process. The 180s have been blowing baseball sized exits out of critters for a couple years now.
 
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