Building a house, is this normal ?

[woods89]

Seriously though update:
Builder told her to go with a block wall basement to save money.

Soils are different in different areas, and I can't speak to your area, but in my area I'd consider this a terrible idea.

Yes, generally any basement wall has to be waterproofed. A lot of folks use foundation tar, but I personally would probably want a membrane of some type. In my area it's just as important to have drain tile bedded in clean gravel at the bottom of the wall on the outside daylighted out. ( Almost all basements in my area are walkouts)

I know my brother in law who's a custom home builder in western Kentucky usually has block laid for crawlspace foundation walls, and that works fine there, but if he's building on a basement it's ICF.

In my area almost all foundation or basement walls are poured concrete wall.

 

[WCT3]

Soils are different in different areas, and I can't speak to your area, but in my area I'd consider this a terrible idea.

Yes, generally any basement wall has to be waterproofed. A lot of folks use foundation tar, but I personally would probably want a membrane of some type. In my area it's just as important to have drain tile bedded in clean gravel at the bottom of the wall on the outside daylighted out. ( Almost all basements in my area are walkouts)

I know my brother in law who's a custom home builder in western Kentucky usually has block laid for crawlspace foundation walls, and that works fine there, but if he's building on a basement it's ICF.

In my area almost all foundation or basement walls are poured concrete wall.

Yeah I would stay away from a block foundation. It's fine for a crawlspace but even then all the builders I know pour concrete. Your foundation isn't something you want to try to save money on.

 

[Pharmseller]

Best advice I got when I built, was if you go cheap, go cheap on something you can upgrade later.

 

[ddowning]

What you’re suggesting can be a good idea, but the reality is not everyone has the knowledge or experience to manage it effectively. A lot of times, it can lead to disorganization and unnecessary chaos.

It’s also important to consider that if you take on the responsibility of sourcing materials yourself, that can work out great—but if something is wrong, the crew still expects to be paid for that day. When a contractor handles materials and coordination, they’re not doing that for free—it’s part of the value they bring.

I do think trade pricing has increased, but at the same time, people often don’t want to pay skilled tradesmen a higher wage, while expecting higher pay in their own professions. One of the advantages of owning your own business is having the ability to control your income and give yourself raises based on your effort and risk.

From what I’ve seen in my area, the lowest bid is often the one that ends up changing scope, running over schedule, and delivering lower-quality work. Higher bids, while not guaranteed, are typically more reliable and produce better results.

I also think a lot of people think the only high paying jobs are office jobs, not the physically debilitating professions that the trades are.

This is in now way aimed towards the quoted message, I quoted it only for reference. I’ll get off my box now lol.

100%. There are a lot of fly by nighters in my area as well. The money perspective has gotten so bad that no one wants to pay for a general contractor. There's not a ton of work to go around like there had been and I find myself working in situations where homeowners want to be the general contractor. I refuse to be the general contractor for free and they all seem to have a friend that is a "general contractor" that says, "it's easy, I just make all my tradesman coordinate with each other." It doesn't take long for trades people to figure this out and price it into the job. Also, I started my business in 2018. My monthly budget for groceries was $335 and my mortgage was $800. By 2020 I was doing very well without any increase in what I charged for labor. I bought a different house (shittier) with way more land. My mortgage was now $2500. After covid everyone wanted higher wages and customers would pay more. Now we have companies buying jobs for 1990s prices. Luckily, I saved enough money to make it awhile, but it is nuts what things cost and what people will do when work is scarce.

Construction (especially residential) has minimal barriers to entry. I see new companies advertise on Facebook all the time that they will work for $25/hr. I can't even break even for that, and I can get a job with a big commercial construction company with a lot less stress where I don't need to run my own company for more than twice that. Hell, I made $38/hr plus a really good benefit package (2017) teaching at a community college (building trades) between working for other companies and starting my own. Do people really expect someone to run a company for the same pay they could make as a wage? Why would anyone go through the headache and financial risk to do that. Based on my experience running a 4 man crew doing higher end labor, I would say the $1500/day quoted by the gentleman is the company's cost and not what they need to bill out at to make a profit. Before covid price changes 4 guys where around $2000/day billed to gc and more to customer. To be profitable after all the inflation it needs to be more like $2400/day and that is actually less profit than previous as a percentage.

The last thing people don't understand is what the experience is worth in custom anything in construction. Pre-construction planning is a very valuable skill. People that are good at it do not do it for free. If you are getting it for free it is not good service. You will have all kinds of problems arise and change orders piled on. Companies that are good at pre-construction planning look really expensive up front. They should have detailed plans, specs, scope, contract, and price up front. No surprises. Companies that are horrible at pre-construction planning look cheap in the beginning and then change order you to death. They have no idea what they are getting into and go over budget and past deadline all the time.

The exception is if you do a spec or "semi-custom". You're choosing a plan that has likely been built many times. The pre-construction planning has been distributed across several identical builds and the surprises have been encountered and worked out. This is where things can be more "economical." Custom doesn't necessarily mean elaborate or difficult. It just means that it is different and requires the complete pre-construction planning process to be worked through to effectively and efficiently carry out the build.

 

[S.Clancy]

Just remember, land appreciates, not the house. If it's a great piece of land I would hold onto it.

 

[RS3579]

Yes sir, my girl is high society man!
She’s not crossing the threshold of a home with wheels on it.

Seriously though update:
Builder told her to go with a block wall basement to save money.
Do these get waterproofed as part of the build?
What is the best waterproofing?

She is quietly coming around to selling the land and buying a place.

Modular and MOBILE homes are 100% different. Mobile homes have wheels. I recommended a modular.

 

[tony]

The specs called for a steel roof, this builder quoted shingles. I mean WTF, do these guys just change things because then want to?
But, hes telling her shingles and a cheaper siding will save her money. Obviously cheaper siding would. I had a steel roof laid over shingles years back at my house and it was way cheaper than shingles.
She was looking at a siding that ran vertical instead of the typical horizontal siding.

 

[WCT3]

The specs called for a steel roof, this builder quoted shingles. I mean WTF, do these guys just change things because then want to?
But, hes telling her shingles and a cheaper siding will save her money. Obviously cheaper siding would. I had a steel roof laid over shingles years back at my house and it was way cheaper than shingles.
She was looking at a siding that ran vertical instead of the typical horizontal siding.

I'm pretty sure shingles are typically quite a bit cheaper than a steel roof. Of course over the lifespan of the steel roof it might be cheaper in the long run but I would think shingles would save a lot of money up front.

Edit: should have mentioned the cost savings is no reason to change what's bid without first consulting with you guys

 

[Silveroddo]

The specs called for a steel roof, this builder quoted shingles. I mean WTF, do these guys just change things because then want to?

Half of them seem to.

 

[ThunderJack49]

The specs called for a steel roof, this builder quoted shingles. I mean WTF, do these guys just change things because then want to?
But, hes telling her shingles and a cheaper siding will save her money. Obviously cheaper siding would. I had a steel roof laid over shingles years back at my house and it was way cheaper than shingles.
She was looking at a siding that ran vertical instead of the typical horizontal siding.

This is what I mean when I say clients and builders are talking past each other. You may have said something along the lines of "our budget is X" and then sent your builder plans. Not all builders are expert salesmen or communicators but he looks at the plans and then decides that you can't afford a metal roof or more expensive siding based off of the parameters you gave him.
This is a fairly common scenario. Customer wants one thing, but the budget says another and then is frustrated because the builder makes decisions based around the budget. Then the customer is upset because they feel like they have been left out of the decision process. They express their frustration and then the builder becomes aggravated because he's trying to work within the parameters given. Often customers are asking for blood from a stone.
Another common thing I hear is "this builder used cheap materials". Builders charging a % based fee off the total cost of the build don't benefit from using "cheaper materials" other than keep clients on budget and happy.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Half of them seem to.

This is why it was nice to work with a corporate builder where everything down to the last detail was spec'd and itemized. I went through a bank that gave me the final authorization for draws from the loan so if it wasn't done per print, I didn't approve, they don't get paid. There was actually a mistake where it came down to that and I stood my ground, ended up with a new project manager that was way easier to work with and things went smooth from there.

 

[tony]

Latest update:
The current builder messaged Beth. Paraphrasing here, the bills site is “too challenging “ to work on. Any he can’t find sub contractors that will work in our budget .
Get the f#&k outta here. I was a rural firefighter and paramedic. I know damned goat paths people call driveways. The incline gage in my truck puts the steepest part of the driveway at 12%. It’s steeper than I want sure but you can drive a car up it.
He mentioned have to pull concrete trucks up the hill.
Our budget was $350-400k that doesn’t sound cheap for our area.
Then he bumped to over $500 with no explanation.

I think at this point, she is throwing in the towel and going to put the land up for sale.
With that, couple questions:
County water line runs out this way, should we have the tap put in to make it more sellable? It’s a few thousand.
The excavation company shoved a bunch of trees and brush over in a corner. I have no idea what they are. Would a logging or mill outfit come and look at them. We would give them away and just burn the stumps and limbs.
There is at least a thousand feet of black plastic gas line that ran above ground. The farm on one side ran gas to the place on the other side of the property years back.
How do get rid of that?

Couple photos
Build site

Driveway from the road

Drive going up

Middle drive way

 

[KurtR]

Latest update:
The current builder messaged Beth. Paraphrasing here, the bills site is “too challenging “ to work on. Any he can’t find sub contractors that will work in our budget .
Get the f#&k outta here. I was a rural firefighter and paramedic. I know damned goat paths people call driveways. The incline gage in my truck puts the steepest part of the driveway at 12%. It’s steeper than I want sure but you can drive a car up it.
He mentioned have to pull concrete trucks up the hill.
Our budget was $350-400k that doesn’t sound cheap for our area.
Then he bumped to over $500 with no explanation.

I think at this point, she is throwing in the towel and going to put the land up for sale.
With that, couple questions:
County water line runs out this way, should we have the tap put in to make it more sellable? It’s a few thousand.
The excavation company shoved a bunch of trees and brush over in a corner. I have no idea what they are. Would a logging or mill outfit come and look at them. We would give them away and just burn the stumps and limbs.
There is at least a thousand feet of black plastic gas line that ran above ground. The farm on one side ran gas to the place on the other side of the property years back.
How do get rid of that?

Couple photos
Build site
View attachment 1049334
Driveway from the road
View attachment 1049335View attachment 1049336
Drive going up
View attachment 1049337
Middle drive way
View attachment 1049338

You would be surprised how useless redi mix trucks are on a grade like that

 

[tony]

Yeah, the contractor says they might have to pull them up the hill.
I figured something that big could drive right up.

 

[KurtR]

Yeah, the contractor says they might have to pull them up the hill.
I figured something that big could drive right up.

A little bit of moisture and they are useless. They dont turn for shit either once mud gets on the front tires. Its something i deal with all the time people thing they are big and its not fun when they get stuck and dump 10 yards on the ground to get out or tip over

 

[CorbLand]

I am no help on your questions but I am curious to see how selling it goes now that it’s been disclosed that it’s basically not feasible to build on or will come with a higher cost burden to do so.

 

[tony]

I am no help on your questions but I am curious to see how selling it goes now that it’s been disclosed that it’s basically not feasible to build on or will come with a higher cost burden to do so.

Yeah, she told me last night the first builder (family friend), told her dad he wouldn’t let his daughter buy this land. Seriously! I don’t know what she was thinking.
I guess I can hunt on 10 acres right?

I think someone would stick a single wide or double wide up there for sure

 

[JohnB]

Jeezus! That driveway looks like a fricken nightmare! Plus significant runs for W/S/G/Electrical. In my neck of the woods that house would be a steal at ~520,000!

 

[tony]

Had AEP out a few weeks ago. They have a $5000.00 rebate for new power to a new home build. Estimator said above ground from those lines in front would be free.
Under ground would have a charge minus the rebate, she said around $2000.00
Water would be a long run, power is a few hundred feet. Septic but I’m not sure on that one.
Driveway looks that bad?