Building a house, is this normal ?

[Whitefox82]

And demand a particular standard of work, depending on the GC, as well as coordinating that work so things happen when they’re supposed to happen, versus letting things happen. (I.e….maintaining schedule and budget(.

I’m not in the residential market..I’ve done three extremely high-end homes in my 15 year career ($4.5m-$15M), along with hundreds of commercial projects. And we work much lower than 15%, depending on total project value…the level of project management/high-end GC-shit is directly proportional to the project value.

But to directly answer your question, yes…getting materials right the first time, and getting subs on site at the right time, with the right materials, with the minimal amount of mobilization fees, is part of a competent GC’s role.

Ohhh, so you’re not in the residential market but then want to tell those who are that don’t know what they’re talking about!!! Go get lost somewhere

 

[Whitefox82]

And demand a particular standard of work, depending on the GC, as well as coordinating that work so things happen when they’re supposed to happen, versus letting things happen. (I.e….maintaining schedule and budget(.

I’m not in the residential market..I’ve done three extremely high-end homes in my 15 year career ($4.5m-$15M), along with hundreds of commercial projects. And we work much lower than 15%, depending on total project value…the level of project management/high-end GC-shit is directly proportional to the project value.

But to directly answer your question, yes…getting materials right the first time, and getting subs on site at the right time, with the right materials, with the minimal amount of mobilization fees, is part of a competent GC’s role.

Scheduling, getting materials right…. yeah homeowners you have no business doing this. The sub contractors make sure the materials are right or the materials supplier does. Residential GCs have little to do with this. Their main job is simply logistics (sending emails)!!

 

[Drenalin]

Ohhh, so you’re not in the residential market but then want to tell those who are that don’t know what they’re talking about!!! Go get lost somewhere

Did I say that? Or have you been a little deep in the bottle tonight? You should send the OP a quote…perhaps he’d have enough sense to go with the Amish guy.

 

[Drenalin]

Scheduling, getting materials right…. yeah homeowners you have no business doing this. The sub contractors make sure the materials are right or the materials supplier does. Residential GCs have little to do with this. Their main job is simply logistics (sending emails)!!

Yeah, how unreasonable to expect a sub…focused on one extremely specific portion of the work…to get that right. And somehow, they rarely do.

 

[Whitefox82]

Spoken like someone not even remotely connected to said industry. Have you been the GC on your own build? Or are you recommending that just to pretend to have something useful to contribute?

I’ve seen several guys try to GC themselves without any prior experience…it has never been less than an unmitigated disaster if they don’t have some relevant prior experience.

Edit to add: you may well be in some jurisdiction without a legit code enforcement department, or where there aren’t legitimate businesses/contractors to take on the project, where you have to rely on 2-3 man crews who will take triple the time for a relatively simple build. If that’s the case, disregard what I said and go fumble-%#€£ your way through a build.

You said it here genius.
By the way that 15000 sq ft house I just did was through a commercial builder. Yeah, they reached out to me, a solo working LLC, to side that house just through word of mouth. And guess what? In 2.5 months I was there, I never saw a single project manger from that company. Oh and I figured and bought the materials too. You’re worthless….

 

[Drenalin]

You said it here genius.
By the way that 15000 sq ft house I just did was through a commercial builder. Yeah, they reached out to me, a solo working LLC, to side that house just through word of mouth. And guess what? In 2.5 months I was there, I never saw a single project manger from that company. Oh and I figured and bought the materials .

That’s awesome for you - congrats on building a successful siding company! Can you relate that to what it’s like to GC your own home build? Or are you under the impression that it’s done after you nail up some Hardie Board?

 

[BRTreedogs]

Is the 15% of the total gross build?
Or do I misunderstand?

I just can’t comprehend paying a GC 75 k for a 500k build that takes 3 months

So the skilled subs are $350 day but the GC makes $1200 day?

 

[tony]

Appreciate the information men

It has been a learning experience for sure.
I'm learning what the term house poor means, and I don't want any part of it.

 

[Whitefox82]

That’s awesome for you - congrats on building a successful siding company! Can you relate that to what it’s like to GC your own home build? Or are you under the impression that it’s done after you nail up some Hardie Board?

Yes. I can.

 

[Drenalin]

Is the 15% of the total gross build?
Or do I misunderstand?

I just can’t comprehend paying a GC 75 k for a 500k build that takes 3 months

So the skilled subs are $350 day but the GC makes $1200 day?

Correct, at least in my region, 15-20% of gross. It actually lands at 20% on average, possibly more depending on current workload and how scrupulous a given contractor is.

Your second sentence is where some people who are willing to put in the work can save some money. Where I am, a homeowner can pull their own permit once per year, and they can manage it themselves. Ideally, they’d have some level of experience so they don’t turn a 6-month build into a 15-month build, but that does happen (I know a guy who is 5 years into a 2 year build, because he keeps screwing around over dimes instead of focusing on dollars).

If we say a “skilled sub” is $350 per day, most GCs would be making $70 per day, tops.

 

[woods89]

Is the 15% of the total gross build?
Or do I misunderstand?

I just can’t comprehend paying a GC 75 k for a 500k build that takes 3 months

So the skilled subs are $350 day but the GC makes $1200 day?

We are currently punch listing out a 4,400 sq ft house. We did it as a hybrid cost plus, we billed all subs and material at a percentage of markup ( not quite 15%) and then my labor rate is stand alone without markup (i.e. high enough it doesn't need to be marked up). Subs can get a bit complicated, some of mine carry Worker's Comp and some don't, so the ones that don't have to be covered under my policy, which means I actually mark them up at a higher rate and then get the joy of paying for them to be covered at the end of the year.

So yes, markup is a significant amount of money on a project like this. And make no mistake, we have done well on this one. Overhead is a thousand small cuts, though.

My situation is a little different than what most are talking about. We run one project at a time, and I'm onsite around 4 days a week. I am generally wearing tools most of that time, but I have days that seem like I'm mostly on my phone or laptop coordinating materials and subs. It can be frustrating, and sometimes I do kind of wish I just put my tool belt on and framed, but it's also quite rewarding to see trades move through a project in a smooth manner.

For what it's worth, my client is quite happy. He wants things taken care of, and he doesn't want to be on the phone all the time putting out fires. He just wants progress and an invoice every 2 weeks.

I'm always looking for clients like him!

 

[7mm-08]

Just adding this since I havent seen it mentioned... but for all the "be your own GC" comments you better either have industry experience or paying for it all in cash. Youre not going to just walk into a bank and get a construction loan with no experience. Alot of banks wont, even if you do have experience.

Great points but you forgot to mention that from an operational perspective, you'd better have a relationship with the trades or you'll be at the end of a long line.

 

[Whitefox82]

That’s awesome for you - congrats on building a successful siding company! Can you relate that to what it’s like to GC your own home build? Or are you under the impression that it’s done after you nail up some Hardie Board?

Do you demean the workers on your companies job sites too?

 

[AK Troutbum]

You’re missing my point. 900 is a fantastic living space for two retired people but it has horrible re-sale value and equity and is the most expensive per foot that you can do.

Your water, septic, power, road, dirt work and landscaping costs are some of the most expensive line items in a new build and they are all the exact same price whether you build a 20 sq ft out house or a 10,000 sq ft McMansion.

A lot of builders forget to mention those costs in there per sq ft price.

If you’re going to go through the head ache of building going bigger (to a point) isn’t a whole lot more expensive per ft. I always try and nudge people towards a 3 bed 2 bath because it’s not much more to build than 2 bed and 2 bath but the equity is much higher. I made that mistake myself once and it cost me 100k in equity in what would of been an additional 10k cost at most to just add another bedroom

Just trying to help everyone out and get the most out of what a head ache a new build can be

I totally see your point, and agree with most of it, but would I really need a septic system for a 20sf outhouse?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Drenalin]

Yes. I can.

What an amazingly detailed response! What’s your company name?

Do you demean the workers on your companies job sites too?

If we ever cross paths, I’d be happy to try and work with you, truly. I know these internet exchanges can be contentious, but we can usually work that out with a few calls or an in-person meeting . Unless you actually think that running a siding job is the same as GCing an entire build…in which case, you’re retarded and shouldn’t be posting

 

[Snowwolfe]

Allowances, allowances, and allowances. Compare contractors all you want but you better be comparing what they allocate for you to spend for each area of the build.
If you go over they charge more.
If you are under will they decrease the price of the build?
Do you have a clause built into the contract to cover you if the build is not finished on time?

 

[Mag_7s]

I’ve seen several guys try to GC themselves without any prior experience…it has never been less than an unmitigated disaster if they don’t have some relevant prior experience

I agree being the GC is not for 99% of home owners, but its far from rocket appliances. It can be done by those who are determined and humble enough to ask questions, research and learn. I GC'd mine from the architect to the final inspection. I do have friends in the industry that helped a weekend here and there but it was mostly on my own. Hard...yes, but the hardest part wasn't the build itself (i enjoyed the hell out it). The hardest part was being away from my family ever weekend and my wife was pretty much a single mother of two.
The point is, regular mooks like me can and do build their own homes successfully.

 

[BRTreedogs]

Correct, at least in my region, 15-20% of gross. It actually lands at 20% on average, possibly more depending on current workload and how scrupulous a given contractor is.

Your second sentence is where some people who are willing to put in the work can save some money. Where I am, a homeowner can pull their own permit once per year, and they can manage it themselves. Ideally, they’d have some level of experience so they don’t turn a 6-month build into a 15-month build, but that does happen (I know a guy who is 5 years into a 2 year build, because he keeps screwing around over dimes instead of focusing on dollars).

If we say a “skilled sub” is $350 per day, most GCs would be making $70 per day, tops.

So they have costs out of the 15-20%?

Cause it sounds like they are making 400 k a year just for having a relationship with subs, if they only do 4 builds.

Seems wild. Not to down play they roll.
But it seems like my basic job roll as a foreman. Except in a totally different industry.
Just seems wild to make $35 k a month just to facilitate a build with other people’s money. And yet have virtually zero accountability if it goes over budget or not in time.

I had a builder buddy for awhile.
He had his guys down pat and were framing a house in 60 days

But he was financing the entire deal, then selling a finished, financiable home.

Seems like a guy could grossly over pay the subs, coaxing them to show and do a good job, and still save a pile.

 

[CMF]

Just adding this since I havent seen it mentioned... but for all the "be your own GC" comments you better either have industry experience or paying for it all in cash. Youre not going to just walk into a bank and get a construction loan with no experience. Alot of banks wont, even if you do have experience.

There are some banks that will still do construction loans for a self build, even without experience. I have a buddy building right now and know several others who have done it within the last 5 years. You just have to find the right bank.

 

[WDO]

IMO I would be careful with the "GC your own house" if you're not in the industry and that region. It can be done, and can save money, but it can also be a nightmare with the details, nuances, and relationships that spiral out of control quickly.

Also, In my opinion, alot of the issues with construction, pricing, etc is how the markets/economy have moved, but another giant issue is just people in general. I've been on the contracting side and the owner's side, and the lack of accountability of most people in general is pretty depressing.

I used to frame houses on the side with a guy that did good work, but he went to Lowes once and sometimes twice a day. To me, it gets hard to argue schedule when you spent an hour a day off site due to making material runs that could be done once a week by simply making a detailed list of what needs to be done.