Building a house, is this normal ?

The last custom build price/sqft I heard from a builder was $300/sqft, and that was some years ago. At $520k, you're at less than $250/sqft. I think you might be getting a pretty good deal.
This kind of reminded me something that I wanted to say earlier.

A contractor who gives you a price per sq ft number, unless they are giving you their blueprints on a house they have built several times is a massive red flag.

If you are designing your dream home there is no way anyone builder can say "we're at $275 per sq ft." Its just damn near impossible.

Now if they sit down with your plans and spend a week or 2 doing a full take off and come up with a number and then figure out where they came in at PPSF, thats different.

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Quick answers/questions

House is 2100 SF
What is GM? Is that general manager / general contractor?

Its just me and her. We each have 1 child, both grown and gone.

Both in the medical field, she travels to make good money. Which is one reason I've questioned this build. She will hardly be there.

Property is on a ridge, its flat on the build site, the driveway best I calculated using my truck is a 12% climb.
Future plans are some sort of pole barn, we have a definite need for a small tractor for land maintenance.

The 350.000 was actually 400,000 per the builder for cost over run.

I am 57 and finally trying to retire for the last time soon. I really don't want to be strapped to this kind of money. $500 k and I am out of the plan.

I guess the thing I don't understand is how do you go from $350 to 520 overnight??

We have found similar houses with property for around the same cost. We can do a little work, say "updates"
I don’t know the specifics of your conversation with him but construction language can be very difficult sometimes and people are often talking past each other.
The price swing could be that he threw out a ballpark number and then once he took a stronger look at the project, decided he needed to raise the price. I wouldn’t attribute it to shady practices.
Building has a tremendous amount of variability and is one of the few places in our society where active negotiations are common and expected. You are also dealing with individuals who all run and operate their businesses with different situations and values that determine how they price.
Building is flat out expensive. Builders are in short supply and the external costs are many.
All that to be said, I think the human factor of dealing with different builders is unique and uncomfortable to consumers who are used to dealing with giant companies that essentially set a universal price to all things (Walmart, Amazon, Target).
It’s likely not malice, if that is any consolation.
 
I did a custom build that finished just before covid hit. I hired a GM and it was worth it for me. He was able to get better pricing on materials than I could have and because of his relationship with his subs, they actually showed up when needed. I think about the time I spent with my family rather than stressing about coordinating subs and believe it was money well spent. I also believe my GM was in the top tier of contractors and that isn't everyone's experience.
 
This kind of reminded me something that I wanted to say earlier.

A contractor who gives you a price per sq ft number, unless they are giving you their blueprints on a house they have built several times is a massive red flag.

If you are designing your dream home there is no way anyone builder can say "we're at $275 per sq ft." Its just damn near impossible.

Now if they sit down with your plans and spend a week or 2 doing a full take off and come up with a number and then figure out where they came in at PPSF, thats different.

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Price/sqft is just a high level estimate based on average cost of recent past projects. It's not a quote. I work in civil site design, and I even occasionally use this method for rough estimates on design for the site based only on the building square footage, and I don't design anything inside of the building. It's just a way to give a client a quick number that will enable them to agree to proceed with a formal proposal/bid.
 
Anyone involved in the housing market (real estate agents, contractors, loan agents, etc.) have been gorging themselves for the last 5 years and have been able to command extremely high prices.

I feel that things are about to change however, and things will begin to reset and drive the paper tigers out of the market
 
It takes time but do a pull off of plans. Shop material and see where you are. Material shopping is a lot of negotiation with suppliers. I imagine you can get fairly competitive pricing for material. Now, finding a builder is to let you do that might be difficult as that is part of their profit. I GCd my shop and saved a ton of money. A house that small should be fairly straightforward. If nothing else you will truly find out where the pricing is, or is not. Good luck!!
 
Reliable, quality skilled tradesmen and labourers are rare and expensive. This may have changed but at one point the US got most of its lumber from Canada, now the tariffs, add in the building boom that happening in some states that are taking all the Liberal state refugees. When I built my house the builder was awesome at showing me where I was wasting money.

Example: I wanted this certain granite countertops for the Kitchen. He showed me two samples and I really couldn't tell the difference. One would cost $14,000 and the other $3,000. One was from Oklahoma and the other packed off a mountain on a donkey's back in South America...

Also builders talk to one another and are probably friends. They will all stay close enough to one another that everyone gets a cut of the pie...
And the $3000 option was the one that got packed off of a mountain on a donkeys back in South America?
 
I am part owner of a residential construction company. 3 guys, a truck and tool trailer, and a good list of subcontractors! We do both remodeling and new construction (currently finishing up a new home well north of 1 mil).

My brother and I were at the International Builders Show in February, and I can tell you that the term "affordability" is getting discussed heavily in the industry right now. I feel like with current costs we will see a lot more 1500-2500 sf homes than the 5000 sf monsters of years past, just for this reason.

For us, most of the increase has been labor. It's not so much that skilled labor is expensive, more so in my area that is just doesn't exist, at least nowhere near the level needed for demand. For the last 5 years or so I likely could have sold a solid 50% more work if we had the labor available, but we are very selective as to who we put in an occupied remodel. This problem has been coming for a long time, and the industry has tried to mitigate it to some extent, but unfortunately most kids are told they deserve a management or white collar role, so here we are.

You may look at those numbers and think they're outrageous, and 10 years ago they would have been, but if you are going to W-2 your employees, carry appropriate insurance, and build with sound practices that really is what it costs.

What should a 1-2 mil revenue a year contractor make? There's a lot of liability in running these kind of projects. It also takes a lot of admin work to keep a new house project on track. I personally don't think a $200,000 a year salary for a guy like this is out of line, having lived in that world. I don't personally make that, but it's on my mind as I'm setting rates.

I see the suggestion a lot of GC'ing your own, and this can be done, but a word of caution on that. Building systems are becoming ever more complex, and it's easier to get into moisture and air quality issues if you don't understand how systems work together. One of the biggest issues I see with this is a lack of understanding on the correct order for trades to move through the project. Another big issue is that there are a lot of little detail issues that fall between trades that we take care of as a GC. The customer likely never knows this is happening, and sometimes they simply don't get done when the homeowner is their own GC, and cause problems down the road. Finally, I have a really solid list of subs, and if you don't have an "in'' in the industry you might not even know who they are. The good ones often do very little advertising.....

Most communities still have a few really good builders, however, you will pay for them and you will wait for them. Good luck.
 
but unfortunately most kids are told they deserve a management or white collar role, so here we are.


Yep.

To those who think the paper planes or blonde tigers or whatever and the market.

Guess what. There is more of yall wanting work then there is people to do it.

Get used to living in a unremodeled boomer house.
 
We built out house a few years back at the rock bottom interest rates. We paid high prices for material but nothing ever really came down. I’m glad we built when we did.

I will NEVER build a home again. Ever.

Oh yes, know this, most (not all) contractors are dishonest savage liars.
 
Yep.

To those who think the paper planes or blonde tigers or whatever and the market.

Guess what. There is more of yall wanting work then there is people to do it.

Get used to living in a unremodeled boomer house.
I feel like the one of the most American things a person can do is to do something others don't want to do ( or don't want their kids to), get really good at it, and then charge what the market says you are worth.

However, when we contractors do that, we're ripping people off!

I do feel for people's distress over it, though. I just wish they could peak behind the curtain a bit and see what it actually takes to get to the end of the year and have some money for what you've done.

A couple weeks ago I get a text that the kitchen sink that's at my granite fabricator has a crack in it. Customer is ready to move in, and we have a granite install date that I don't want to miss. Very few people understand what it takes sometimes to get that sink where it needs to be in time to keep things on track.

It's enough to give a guy grey hair.......
 
I feel like the one of the most American things a person can do is to do something others don't want to do ( or don't want their kids to), get really good at it, and then charge what the market says you are worth.

However, when we contractors do that, we're ripping people off!

I do feel for people's distress over it, though. I just wish they could peak behind the curtain a bit and see what it actually takes to get to the end of the year and have some money for what you've done.

A couple weeks ago I get a text that the kitchen sink that's at my granite fabricator has a crack in it. Customer is ready to move in, and we have a granite install date that I don't want to miss. Very few people understand what it takes sometimes to get that sink where it needs to be in time to keep things on track.

It's enough to give a guy grey hair.......

Worth noting that construction is one of the most litigated industries. If you are in the industry you haven’t arrived until you have been sued on a frivolous lawsuit and had to spend 100k to defend yourself. You as a customer are getting to pay because the last jackasssss sued because he "heard" they would just settle and give him 25k.
 
I wanted to do a barndo build but it is gonna be a pain in the ass cause tradesmen dont show and charge a lot. The slab increased about $60/$70k just by getting the guys there to talk.

Was looking in the $300k range but can put a double or triple wide for $70k-$130k on a drop it in a slab for $200k vs $400k.

We dont have kids that will want to move there and will sell for a song when we dead. Why invest the extra $200k for granite and fancy switch plates?

Someone else said go small and build out a guest place for visitors/family that won’t leave. Be cheaper for sure. That’s a possibility. Maybe do a slightly larger place at minimal cost?

Glad to have a wife without expensive tastes.
 
I feel like the one of the most American things a person can do is to do something others don't want to do ( or don't want their kids to), get really good at it, and then charge what the market says you are worth.

However, when we contractors do that, we're ripping people off!

I do feel for people's distress over it, though. I just wish they could peak behind the curtain a bit and see what it actually takes to get to the end of the year and have some money for what you've done.

A couple weeks ago I get a text that the kitchen sink that's at my granite fabricator has a crack in it. Customer is ready to move in, and we have a granite install date that I don't want to miss. Very few people understand what it takes sometimes to get that sink where it needs to be in time to keep things on track.

It's enough to give a guy grey hair.......

What about the bugger eating liars that want compensated the same as the masters of the trade?
How are we supposed to determine a master from a tool bag.

We all have stressors at or job, deadlines to meet etc

Different trade, same stuff. Why should you be compensated at a 2x-3x rate

You make it sound like trust fund babies don’t want to pay your rate. When it’s mostly hard working folks up against the same things trying to afford it?


Also why was the Amish guys bid the same, he ain’t w2 no body or paying any taxes.
 
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