BT Sr350, ss34, Hoyt vtm, Mathews phase 4

[Burkeyoder18]

Headed to the bow shop Saturday, if you had to choose which bow are you taking?

 

[Wannabebowhuntr]

Can’t go wrong with any of them. I went home with a phase 4 33 this year. But if I did it all over again good chance I would leave with something else. Really I want one of each haha.

 

[Burkeyoder18]

Can’t go wrong with any of them. I went home with a phase 4 33 this year. But if I did it all over again good chance I would leave with something else. Really I want one of each haha.

Is the phase 4 as quiet as they say?

 

[Wannabebowhuntr]

Is the phase 4 as quiet as they say?

Yeah it's super dead. That's really how I ended up with it. I was pretty decided on buying a PSE but when I shot everything next to the phase 4 nothing felt right with how dead it was. However I didn't shoot a VTM or RX7. I had just sold a ventum 33 and wanted to try a different brand than hoyt. My ventum 33 was pretty dead also so I imagine the VTM will be close to the phase 4. Draw cycle on the HBX cam was better than the mathews.

 

[Billy Goat]

Is the phase 4 as quiet as they say?

According to a review here, no.

Shooting it around people it seems so, but that could just be perceived.


Shoot them all, try to shoot at min 20 yard range to get a feel for them. All of them have pro's and con's. If you don't have a press at home you will find tuning easier with the deadlock system. I'm not sold on the longevity of that system yet personally, but it works very well. Have tuned a handful for people, nice and easy. I have never liked the routing of bowtech cables, they tend to be hard on serving.

Both Hoyt and Mathews you will need a press to shim cams.

 

[sndmn11]

According to a review here, no.

Shoot them all, try to shoot at min 20 yard range to get a feel for them. All of them have pro's and con's. If you don't have a press at home you will find tuning easier with the deadlock system. I'm not sold on the longevity of that system yet personally, but it works very well. Have tuned a handful for people, nice and easy. I have never liked the routing of bowtech cables, they tend to be hard on serving.

Both Hoyt and Mathews you will need a press to shim cams.

I agree the best thing a person could do is shoot past 6'. If I were buying a bow I'd take a sight in and put in each bow so I have a frame of reference for pin float and how fass it settles.

I have stripped the heads on a dead lock system before. I am told they changed the choice of screw alloy, but I would just buy a nice wiha hex key and only use it for that. We have also seen the serving anger issues, but that seems corrected with best quality replacements.

I have heard from a few acquaintances that the vtm exceeds velocity expectations and they have had no need to shim. However, my friends who work at the shop I go to all shoot the two bowtechs mentioned or carbon PSEs.

Of those four, I am buying on pin float, the tie breaker is price.

 

[Billy Goat]

I agree the best thing a person could do is shoot past 6'. If I were buying a bow I'd take a sight in and put in each bow so I have a frame of reference for pin float and how fass it settles.

I have stripped the heads on a dead lock system before. I am told they changed the choice of screw alloy, but I would just buy a nice wiha hex key and only use it for that. We have also seen the serving anger issues, but that seems corrected with best quality replacements.

I have heard from a few acquaintances that the vtm exceeds velocity expectations and they have had no need to shim. However, my friends who work at the shop I go to all shoot the two bowtechs mentioned or carbon PSEs.

Of those four, I am buying on pin float, the tie breaker is price.

I have seen 1 deadlock system that the threads wore to lock the position. I think they went with a harder cross thread.

Personally know of 2 Elites that developed play in their system too. Both had a lot of shots on them, more than likely most hunters will put on a bow.

I think those systems or something similar are the future, but still need some time in beta.


The VTM is pretty quick.

 

[sndmn11]

I have seen 1 deadlock system that the threads wore to lock the position. I think they went with a harder cross thread.

Personally know of 2 Elites that developed play in their system too. Both had a lot of shots on them, more than likely most hunters will put on a bow.

I think those systems or something similar are the future, but still need some time in beta.


The VTM is pretty quick.

Interesting, mine was the hex head. The crossed threads you saw were the locking set screw or the worm drive for the cam.

The era I have for review I have been being unkind to by shooting a borderline too light arrow, turning set opposite each other, shooting with the locking screw not tight, I put it on the roof for a 100deg day... I haven't had any hiccups other than my summer league scores went down the weeks I opposed set.

I like both systems a lot.

 

[Billy Goat]

The crossed threads you saw were the locking set screw or the worm drive for the cam.

The deadlock "screw" thread thru the cam seized up. Wasn't the locking screw.

Assumed it was where the threads meshed and wore into each other.


2 friends have around 9-10 months on reckoning g2 so far without issues, and shooting a good bit, with light arrows. The cable timing system makes me nervous on those, but they seem to be holding up well.

 

[sndmn11]

2 friends have around 9-10 months on reckoning g2 so far without issues, and shooting a good bit, with light arrows. The cable timing system makes me nervous on those, but they seem to be holding up well.

The 36 or 39? I haven't shot one, they seemed to sell before I could make it in.

Do they actually use that system? I'd wonder if I have a draw board I probably have a press and it might be the same effort to half twist.

 

[Billy Goat]

The 36 or 39? I haven't shot one, they seemed to sell before I could make it in.

Do they actually use that system? I'd wonder if I have a draw board I probably have a press and it might be the same effort to half twist.

Pretty certain both are 39, one might be 36, can't remember right now.

Yeah, since I have a press and I'm familiar with that, it's how I'd adjust stuff. It seems like you would be better to press them to take some tension off the adjustment bolt on the cam loop rather than twist it under tension, don't know what they recommend you do. It does allow you to be more precise than just twist/half twist. Yes, I have a bow with a barbell of cord in the cable to adjust the length because it was between half twists...


They are quick. I chronoed the 39, at 67# and 28" it was 309 with a 364 gr arrow. That's flat out getting it for that long of a bow. He had around 22# holding on it. I didn't use my scale, or measure actual DL, that's just what he told me.



Edit:
Here's the BT manual and what it says for timelock tuning.

 

[sndmn11]

Pretty certain both are 39, one might be 36, can't remember right now.

Yeah, since I have a press and I'm familiar with that, it's how I'd adjust stuff. It seems like you would be better to press them to take some tension off the adjustment bolt on the cam loop rather than twist it under tension, don't know what they recommend you do. It does allow you to be more precise than just twist/half twist. Yes, I have a bow with a barbell of cord in the cable to adjust the length because it was between half twists...


They are quick. I chronoed the 39, at 67# and 28" it was 309 with a 364 gr arrow. That's flat out getting it for that long of a bow. He had around 22# holding on it. I didn't use my scale, or measure actual DL, that's just what he told me.



Edit:
Here's the BT manual and what it says for timelock tuning.
View attachment 590356

My reckoning 35 had a sliding draw stop, it seemed to accomplish the same when things were in between a half twist. I do think it is neat to be infinitely adjustable in a controlled manner. The mini mods on the new Elites allow the draw stop to moved in a controlled manner as well, but probably not on as micro of a level as a set drew versus that cog wheel.

I still don't grasp why Hoyt and Mathews aren't the 4th and 5th choice for archers because of the tuning features available with Elite, Bowtech, PSE now.

 

[Billy Goat]

My reckoning 35 had a sliding draw stop, it seemed to accomplish the same when things were in between a half twist. I do think it is neat to be infinitely adjustable in a controlled manner. The mini mods on the new Elites allow the draw stop to moved in a controlled manner as well, but probably not on as micro of a level as a set drew versus that cog wheel.

I still don't grasp why Hoyt and Mathews aren't the 4th and 5th choice for archers because of the tuning features available with Elite, Bowtech, PSE now.

There's a difference in nock travel by just adjusting the stop versus being able to adjust the rotation timing.


It's why Mathews has the cable guard centered now. If you run a string through the axles top to bottom and watch the cam sync throughout the draw cycle you can see a difference. It's minor, but it's there.


Does it really matter? Probably not.

 

[Billy Goat]

There's a difference in nock travel by just adjusting the stop versus being able to adjust the rotation timing.


It's why Mathews has the cable guard centered now. If you run a string through the axles top to bottom and watch the cam sync throughout the draw cycle you can see a difference. It's minor, but it's there.


Does it really matter? Probably not.

This might be a better way of explaining it. If you have the bow in a drawboard, especially with an aggressive cam, as you draw back a lot of times you can see the bow shift position. As the cams are rolling over, as they hit different peaks it will put different pressure top and bottom, causing the bow to shift as it's pulled by the nocking point.

Now, when that bow is fired the mass of the bow holds it stable while the nock point actually moves up and down instead, causing poor nock travel.

 

[sndmn11]

This might be a better way of explaining it. If you have the bow in a drawboard, especially with an aggressive cam, as you draw back a lot of times you can see the bow shift position. As the cams are rolling over, as they hit different peaks it will put different pressure top and bottom, causing the bow to shift as it's pulled by the nocking point.

Now, when that bow is fired the mass of the bow holds it stable while the nock point actually moves up and down instead, causing poor nock travel.

I need to go look at one to understand the differentiation then between timing and rotation. I have it in my head that they are the same.

 

[Duh]

I have seen 1 deadlock system that the threads wore to lock the position. I think they went with a harder cross thread.

Personally know of 2 Elites that developed play in their system too. Both had a lot of shots on them, more than likely most hunters will put on a bow.

I think those systems or something similar are the future, but still need some time in beta.


The VTM is pretty quick.

I can attest the the VTM 34. 80lb limbs and 30 inch draw has a 540 grain arrow going at 293 right now with the factory strings.

 

[Billy Goat]

I need to go look at one to understand the differentiation then between timing and rotation. I have it in my head that they are the same.

You can have cams that hit the timing stops at the same time, but don't actually rotate exactly the same.

It's more an alignment issue, except again, how much does it really matter? With a field point on the front I don't think it matters at all. With a broadhead, sometimes I think a shaft can pickup on little things coming out of the bow that the fletching sometimes needs to correct as soon as it comes out of the bow.

It's like lateral face pressure on the string, pretty minor, but it can make the string go left/right as it's coming down towards Brace Height. A shaft with wings on the front can pickup on that sometimes.

 

[Billy Goat]

This has gone way out into the weeds OP, I suggest you ignore our side show for now.


Just find one you like and shoots well for you.

 

[Burkeyoder18]

This has gone way out into the weeds OP, I suggest you ignore our side show for now.


Just find one you like and shoots well for you.

Yep, I’m gonna shoot all that I can and pick what feels best. I’ll let everyone know the results tomorrow.

 

[Burkeyoder18]

Headed to the bow shop Saturday, if you had to choose which bow are you taking?

Welp turns out my realm that apparently “had bent cams and cracked limbs” is apparently in perfect condition still. Not sure which bow shop to believe but I’m gonna try and use it this year and just see what happens