Brown Santa stopped by....3000BDX
- Thread starter catorres1
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tdhanses
WKR
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I like the tan!!!
- Thread Starter
- #4
- Thread Starter
- #6
Yeah, I just spent some very informal time testing them this evening, so the following are very tentative impressions and may change with some real time behind these. It was just on my street on license plates on cars as the sun went down. I used a tripod, but don't have a bino mount so it was not as good as it should have been. Used them side by side with my Zeiss FL's, looking at a car 178 yards away.
Don't misunderstand what follows, to me, there is just something about higher end glass that makes the view nicer. I'm not sophisticated enough to say exactly what it is, but it's there. But raw data concerning getting the job done, there is not as much a gap as the price tags would suggest between the two I had tonight.
That said, I could read the plate with the Zeiss about 5 minutes later than with the Sigs, which with today's particular conditions with light pollution messing with my eyes etc....was about 27 minutes after sunset for the Sigs and 32 minutes after sunset for the FL's. It's hard to describe, though...it seemed that with the Zeiss, it was always better and easier, but I could still get it done with the Sigs, so yeah, the Sig's punched above their weight. I was not too surprised, though, considering Robby Dennings test of the Zulu 5's, which are pretty much, I am told by Sig, the same as these.
Flare wise, there is a street lamp right by my house that plays hell with any optics I try through sunset until full dark. My FL's handle them better than any optics I have been able to try (a limited set, for sure, though...Swarovski...glad to test them out if you want to send me a set!). And as expected, the FL's were still better. That said, I have had some optics be taken out by veiling flare in this particular spot, and that was not the case with the Sigs. I could perceive the flare, but it was well limited. Good performance.
Colorwise was interesting. If you look only through the right barrel, they are a bit cooler than what our eyes see. I understand that this is due to the RF apparatus that is in the right barrel. Cleverly, if you look only through the left barrel, they are a bit warmer than what my (or my son) see. What that results in is natural color balance when you look through both barrels at the same time. The brain combines them and it results in a natural color balance. I was glad to see this because I noticed a distinct color cast in the 2400's and other Sig RF's I have used. The cast is there in the right barrel, albeit significantly lower to my eye, but it disappears entirely when looking normally through the bino. Clever solution.
I'd say from first blush, if you are talking optics purist, you can see a difference that I can't really describe. There is something about the view through alpha glass that I can't put a description to exactly, a quality I can't describe or quantify. But that aside, so far, I am very impressed with these all things considered. If what I have seen so far holds up with actual time behind them, I will have no concerns about them not getting the job done when the light goes down,. Are they Leicas or EL's or whatever...of course not, not possible at this price point. But these are very nice binos, much nicer than I expected based on my conversations with Sig about what to expect from these a year or so ago. I am impressed so far, no doubt.
And when you add in the RF capability and the BDX capability to the scope, I am excited about the possibilities.
Don't misunderstand what follows, to me, there is just something about higher end glass that makes the view nicer. I'm not sophisticated enough to say exactly what it is, but it's there. But raw data concerning getting the job done, there is not as much a gap as the price tags would suggest between the two I had tonight.
That said, I could read the plate with the Zeiss about 5 minutes later than with the Sigs, which with today's particular conditions with light pollution messing with my eyes etc....was about 27 minutes after sunset for the Sigs and 32 minutes after sunset for the FL's. It's hard to describe, though...it seemed that with the Zeiss, it was always better and easier, but I could still get it done with the Sigs, so yeah, the Sig's punched above their weight. I was not too surprised, though, considering Robby Dennings test of the Zulu 5's, which are pretty much, I am told by Sig, the same as these.
Flare wise, there is a street lamp right by my house that plays hell with any optics I try through sunset until full dark. My FL's handle them better than any optics I have been able to try (a limited set, for sure, though...Swarovski...glad to test them out if you want to send me a set!). And as expected, the FL's were still better. That said, I have had some optics be taken out by veiling flare in this particular spot, and that was not the case with the Sigs. I could perceive the flare, but it was well limited. Good performance.
Colorwise was interesting. If you look only through the right barrel, they are a bit cooler than what our eyes see. I understand that this is due to the RF apparatus that is in the right barrel. Cleverly, if you look only through the left barrel, they are a bit warmer than what my (or my son) see. What that results in is natural color balance when you look through both barrels at the same time. The brain combines them and it results in a natural color balance. I was glad to see this because I noticed a distinct color cast in the 2400's and other Sig RF's I have used. The cast is there in the right barrel, albeit significantly lower to my eye, but it disappears entirely when looking normally through the bino. Clever solution.
I'd say from first blush, if you are talking optics purist, you can see a difference that I can't really describe. There is something about the view through alpha glass that I can't put a description to exactly, a quality I can't describe or quantify. But that aside, so far, I am very impressed with these all things considered. If what I have seen so far holds up with actual time behind them, I will have no concerns about them not getting the job done when the light goes down,. Are they Leicas or EL's or whatever...of course not, not possible at this price point. But these are very nice binos, much nicer than I expected based on my conversations with Sig about what to expect from these a year or so ago. I am impressed so far, no doubt.
And when you add in the RF capability and the BDX capability to the scope, I am excited about the possibilities.
- Thread Starter
- #7
I am kinda in the same boat. I really like my FL's and at the moment could only consider swapping them out for some Swaros, or Noctavids or whatever else that I cannot actually afford. The view is just so pleasing.
But that said, these are really nice. And from a workflow perspective for a hunter, I am not sure anything can touch the speed of the BDX system. I am waiting for access to the test range I use, but having used the system hunting already, I can attest to it's speed and effectiveness.
If they push this same setup upscale into a set of Zulu 9's and a Tango 6 scope....I am fairly certain I will have a hard time turning that down as my hunting setup. That glass may not be alpha, but it's close from what I hear, and when you add the BDX functionality, it becomes an incredibly competitive solution to consider from a hunter's perspective in my opinion thus far.
I still have a lot of stuff I want to test before becoming that confident, things like tracking (for when your batteries fail or whatever), durability, etc....but thus far, the more I play, the more impressed I get.
Funny thing is, when my contact at Sig originally demo'ed the system for me...I was not very interested in the scope, kinda dismissed it as a gimmick...I just was hyped about the Kestrel integration. But I've had to change my tune as I have used the whole system and am increasingly impressed.
- Thread Starter
- #8
Did some more testing today, thought it was worth sharing. It must be noted that I am not an 'optics expert'. Some folks probably own every alpha glass model made since the world began, so have a better handle on this than I do, but I'll share my impressions for what they are worth. One other thing, the reason I am comparing them to my FL's is because other than a set of Vortex Raptors and some 20 year old Nikons, that's all we have in the house for binos.
Glass: Spent some time looking long under full sun today, probably as far as 10 miles in some cases. This is where things got real. While the Sigs were really nice, the difference between them and the FL's really started to show as the distances got long. At 800 yards or so, no biggie, though the FL's seem to exhibit less mirage (why, I don't know). But at distances past 2k on, the Sig's view degrades when next to the FL's. where the detail in the FL's really held up. In addition, the difference in mirage became more pronounced. I was looking at a building at what I guess was about 4k yards, I could see much more detail with the FL's than the Sigs. Later in the day, when the mirage pretty much disappeared, the Sigs improved markedly, so I am sure that part of the difference was in how the FL's handled mirage better. But overall, the 'better view' that I always notice but can't quite quantify becomes more apparent when you start looking at small details way out there.
I have heard optics people say that at long distance, the Alphas image holds together where lower grades don't hold up, and that's what I experienced today. The sigs are impressive, but one should not expect Leica or Swaro glass at this price point. As the price suggests, there is a difference there.
Don't take this as the Sig's were poor, they absolutely are not. I also got a cursory comparison with some Vipers, while very preliminary and brief, they seemed pretty much on par. So that should give you something of basis of comparison. Great glass, but you should not expect Alpha level performance. More in the terms of Viper glass if that helps.
Ranging: Full sun today, heavy mirage. I had the 3k out with my Leicas ( 2700, 2800.com) and a Sig 2400. I'll skip all the details, there are some things I need to test yet, but I was able to hit out to 3693 in full sun, and later in the evening, over 3700. Both cases, it was parts of houses. In full sun, the best I could do was 2535 with the other RF's. So not only did the 3k beat the others, it also hit many targets at long distances whereas the others only achieved that long distance on very few targets. In sum, so far, the 3k pretty handily outranges the others, as expected.
One other note, apparently there are different models out there....one with a class 1 laser, another with a class 3. The one I have on demo is a class 1. Not sure what the difference is at this point, but hope to find out next week.
Oh...and mine is also threaded for a stud....
Glass: Spent some time looking long under full sun today, probably as far as 10 miles in some cases. This is where things got real. While the Sigs were really nice, the difference between them and the FL's really started to show as the distances got long. At 800 yards or so, no biggie, though the FL's seem to exhibit less mirage (why, I don't know). But at distances past 2k on, the Sig's view degrades when next to the FL's. where the detail in the FL's really held up. In addition, the difference in mirage became more pronounced. I was looking at a building at what I guess was about 4k yards, I could see much more detail with the FL's than the Sigs. Later in the day, when the mirage pretty much disappeared, the Sigs improved markedly, so I am sure that part of the difference was in how the FL's handled mirage better. But overall, the 'better view' that I always notice but can't quite quantify becomes more apparent when you start looking at small details way out there.
I have heard optics people say that at long distance, the Alphas image holds together where lower grades don't hold up, and that's what I experienced today. The sigs are impressive, but one should not expect Leica or Swaro glass at this price point. As the price suggests, there is a difference there.
Don't take this as the Sig's were poor, they absolutely are not. I also got a cursory comparison with some Vipers, while very preliminary and brief, they seemed pretty much on par. So that should give you something of basis of comparison. Great glass, but you should not expect Alpha level performance. More in the terms of Viper glass if that helps.
Ranging: Full sun today, heavy mirage. I had the 3k out with my Leicas ( 2700, 2800.com) and a Sig 2400. I'll skip all the details, there are some things I need to test yet, but I was able to hit out to 3693 in full sun, and later in the evening, over 3700. Both cases, it was parts of houses. In full sun, the best I could do was 2535 with the other RF's. So not only did the 3k beat the others, it also hit many targets at long distances whereas the others only achieved that long distance on very few targets. In sum, so far, the 3k pretty handily outranges the others, as expected.
One other note, apparently there are different models out there....one with a class 1 laser, another with a class 3. The one I have on demo is a class 1. Not sure what the difference is at this point, but hope to find out next week.
Oh...and mine is also threaded for a stud....
Has anyone tested these connected to the kresral 5700 elite?Lookie what brown santa just brought me....man, I can't wait to get these out and give them a run!!
- Thread Starter
- #10
Yes, they work very very well with the Kestrel Elite. I am working on a review on these, but moving and life in general has slowed things down a bit. Overall, if you look at my review of the 2400 and read the sections on the Kestrel integration, it's the same. Fast, quite stable and reliable. Only downside is the lack of a compass to feed DOF to the Kestrel, so that still has to be done manually, but otherwise, it's a pretty complete integration that works very effectively, providing a very fast workflow.
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