Broadheads for long bows

[Coveyleader]

Shot,

I disagree that Traditional bows need heavier arrows in general? I would classify heavy as being anything over 600 grains. Cedar arrows are not heavy and have been shot off of traditional bows for a long time. I've arrowed Elk, Bighorn Sheep, Deer, Antelope (notice the size biggest to smallest) and have never had an issue with killing them with sub 60lb bows and moderate arrow weights when you hit them right. To each is own, but to state heavy arrows are a must simply isn't true, and animals down in the field means more to me than FOC percentages, Charts, and guys who shoot traditional bows on the range but never hunt with them (and you will see alot of those types).

 

[Shot]

Shot,

I disagree that Traditional bows need heavier arrows in general? I would classify heavy as being anything over 600 grains. Cedar arrows are not heavy and have been shot off of traditional bows for a long time. I've arrowed Elk, Bighorn Sheep, Deer, Antelope (notice the size biggest to smallest) and have never had an issue with killing them with sub 60lb bows and moderate arrow weights when you hit them right. To each is own, but to state heavy arrows are a must simply isn't true, and animals down in the field means more to me than FOC percentages, Charts, and guys who shoot traditional bows on the range but never hunt with them (and you will see alot of those types).

Agree with most of what you just said, except, when I state "heavy arrows" I'm comparing it to what compound guys are shooting, and in general trad arrows are heavier. Trad bows have to make up impact power (momentum) somehow, right? This is just an observation of shooting with many great trad bowhunters. Factors like good arrow flight and shot placement are not arguable, anything else is essentially personal preference.

I am by no means arguing your setup or the way you hunt. I am sure you are a great hunter and you obviously have killed many animals with traditional gear, way more than me. I just stated my findings with FOC and weight (like many others, Dr. Ashby's reports). That is all.

 

[bowuntr]

I still don't understand 300+ up front. With 125's, inserts, heavy carbon arrows and 5" feathers... my arrow is plenty heavy enough and has enough energy to blow thru most big game animals. I lose too much point on yardage with that kind of weight. I still haven't heard the positive to use that heavy of a broad head. Most of my problems right now are in my brain...

Arbi, You may have already explained this to me at the State Broadhead Shoot... but I was in no condition to retain any useful information on that night. Can't wait for this year buddy... i'll be shooting at the longbow stakes.. Ed F

 

[LostArra]

Before the advent of the internet, cedar arrows weighing 9-10gr per lb draw wt and using 125gr heads killed lots of critters.

 

[Shot]

Ed, longbow? nice man. I Look forward to the broad head shoot every year, awesome time for sure.

Heavy BH are not for everyone. Some hate, some love it. I used to shoot 150g heads, with heavy shafts, and had great performance. But one day I decided to experiment with heavy BH. First, I changed my arrow, went from 11g per inch arrow to 6.7g per inch arrow. The weight difference saved I added to the point/BH.

What I ended up with was an arrow that weighed about the same (10g more), but with extreme FOC. Then I started testing them out. What I noticed immediately was how quickly the arrow stabilized in flight. I was shooting bare shafts out to 50 yards. I was amazed by this, I couldn't do it with previous arrows, and they were tuned perfectly. Secondly, I needed very little fletching to stabilizes my broad heads. I went from 3 x 5'' feathers to 4x 2'' feathers. And even tried 1.25'' feathers which worked great also, just didn't like the look.

Dr. Ashby has written many articles about high FOC and better arrow penetration, but I haven't killed enough animals to verify that for myself. But, what I can tell you is my arrow flight is better, stabilizes super quick, my point on hasn't changed, and most importantly I'm shooting better. One guy who can testify about high FOC is Deville, don't know any one who has killed as many animals with a longbow as he has, and he swears by it.

In the end, I shoot what gives me confidence. And honestly, most of the things we do really comes down to personal preference. I mean how much has traditional bowhunting changed in the last 10,000 years?

If interested, here is the Ashby reports. Way to many pages to read, you can even youtube it.
http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx

P.S. Ed, love the skull, came out great!

 

[plentycoupe]

I used to shoot cedar and light arrows for years, 450-550 and they worked well. If all shots were perfect I dont think there would ever be an issue.

But all shots aren't perfect. I had a terrible shot this year. I attribute the penetration I got to a heavy arrow(650ish) and a high FOC(27%). I used a 300grn single bevel broadhead, VPA. I cant find anymore of them so the 3 I have will have to work for a while.

I shot the doe at 12-15 yard quartered away, went through the right thigh, gut, liver, left lung and cracked a rib on the left side. Rib stopped the arrow.

This was from a 50lbs Blacktail.

A friend hit the back of a shoulder blade with his recurve, cedar shaft and 125 grn broadhead. The shoulder stopped the arrow in place.

My arrows fly perfect. I can't claim to understand all the physics behind the increase in performance but I can so from first hand experience that it works.

I can also say that when someone has their mind made up it's pretty hard to change it. I have friend that shoot deer and elk with a 25-06 and cheap ammo, or balllistic tips. It works, doesn't mean its the best tool for the job.

You have a lot of good advice here. Just pick a set up and get to the range to practice. Have fun and good luck!

 

[gobbler1662]

Thanks SDHNTR I gonna order some of those VPA broadheads and give them a try. I appreciate all the discussion

 

[JDeanP]

I second the comment about increased performance/penetration. I shot a deer with the same offset broadhead this season and had similar results.

If everything is perfect a lighter arrow will work just fine. For me, everything isn't perfect and that's why I call it hunting instead of shopping.

For me personally its more justifiable to have a heavier setup. Plus, I hope to stick a water buffalo before long and then the extra weight will really make or break a shot!

 

[G Posik]

My set up for my 74 # longbow and 72 # recurve. I shoot the same arrow. I am shooting a FMJ full length 340 shaft, 100 grain insert and 200 grain broad head. I have a total arrow weight of 715 grains with 26% FOC. I have great arrow flight and awesome penetration. When I shoot woodies I shoot PO cedar shafts with a 200 grain broad head. That arrow is a total of 625 grain.

Glenn

 

[Hawker]

Don't get caught up in all of this. Fred Eichler has killed all 29 big game animals with a 105-125gr bh. I think he used a 75 gn brass insert for his polar bear.

 

[Hawker]

Shoot what flies like your field points.

 

[dlubins]

Again, I'm a rookie, so take anything I say with a grain of salt, but I shoot 3 blade. With a long contour head and enough weight, I think the extra cut is a good thing.

BTW, I don't know if you are an archerytalk or bowsite member, but VPA is having a Christmas sale for members of those sites. Maybe worth checking out. See www.rayzor-vpa.com

Well I see from the date on these posts I am a little late to reply but I want to add something to the conversation for those who might still be searching for advice.
Nobody has talked much about arrows as much as broadheads.
It is very important that your arrows shoot well from your bow.
And I agree with high FOC especially with lower draw weights.
One way to achieve higher FOC on wood arrows with you favorate broadhead is to go to hardwood footed shafts. The footing adds extra FOC and make the shift stronger should you hit a rib or bone. I find footed shafts being a little stiffer on the front of the shaft that they fly better especially with broads.
They can be expensive and are a lot of work to make.
However if you get set up to make your own it is very rewarding to shoot beautiful arrows. I think this gives another direction to your traditional hunt.

 

[Foggy Mountain]

Shot,

I disagree that Traditional bows need heavier arrows in general? I would classify heavy as being anything over 600 grains. Cedar arrows are not heavy and have been shot off of traditional bows for a long time. I've arrowed Elk, Bighorn Sheep, Deer, Antelope (notice the size biggest to smallest) and have never had an issue with killing them with sub 60lb bows and moderate arrow weights when you hit them right. To each is own, but to state heavy arrows are a must simply isn't true, and animals down in the field means more to me than FOC percentages, Charts, and guys who shoot traditional bows on the range but never hunt with them (and you will see alot of those types).

I was almost disagreeing with you until you clarified. If your definition of heavy is over 600 gr I agree with you. I shoot similar weight and have no issues. I shoot cedar and they come in under 600 with 175 gr grizzly.
That’s another point, seems many equate higher cost to better broadheads. VPA this iron will craziness doesn’t kill any deader than a Grizzly or even a light zwickey.
I will say though more penetration the better most very often. Many ways to get there one of the most important is to start with good arrow flight.

 

[Foggy Mountain]

Wow old thread I just realized

 

[SunDontShine]

Coveyleader…..my experience is quite the opposite.

Traditional bows need heavier arrows in general. Whether most of the weight is up front or not is a personal choice. No one is talking about shot placement, good flight, and cut on contact, those are given in any form of bowhunting.

I have shot with a lot of older trad guys, majority, have most of the weight up front. General setups consist of lighter arrow shafts but heavier heads giving higher FOC's. Search the web and you will find so much info on this you won't know what to do. Is it necessary to kill, no! Better penetration and flight, yes!

I was skeptical at first also with high FOC, until, I tired FOR MYSELF. Best thing I did.

I used to use a 150g broad head, CE arrow, weight 525g, FOC 16.5%. I switch to this setup, 300g grizzly kodiaks with victory vhorce arrows, with an FOC around 31.5%, total arrow weight 535g. Between this two arrows I basically change my FOC (moved the weight forward, and minimal weight change).

Here is what I noticed, my point on did NOT change, still at 40 yards. With the higher FOC, the arrow stabilizes much quicker and therefore less fletching is needed (Look at my fletching, 2" feathers). In addition, I'm able to shoot bare shafts to 50 yards. And my 3d score actually improved.

Like I said, I was skeptical at first also, but I couldn't deny the results I was getting. I will never switch back.

what spine do you use, and draw weight or bow poundage? I'm trying to gather info for a arrow setup of my own. thanks.