Broadhead tuning help with Iron Will 100g solids.

[Tatanka17]

Hey guys I'm having issues tuning my IW s100 broad heads. My setup is:

Mathews Halon 32 at 70lbs
28 inch DL
VAP Elite 350 Spine with 4 Fletch AAE Pro max vanes (Right Helical) and wrap
Arrow weight is 420 grains

The Iron Wills are shooting 10 inches high at 60 yards! I micro adjusted my rest down but i'm still shooting high.

I was able to tune a Slick Trick standard 100 grain head out to 60 yards by continually moving my rest down. However, as i did this my field points are now shooting 3-4 inches low at 20-60 yards I feel like I essentially de-tuned my bow by moving my rest. The slick tricks are shooting like darts now but I would love to shoot the IW if i can get then tuned. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Cams are timed as well.

 

[Zac]

I would start by putting the bottom of the carbon shaft through the bottom of the Berger hole. Make sure your bow is perfectly level in both the first and second Axis. Then make sure that your arrow is perfectly level. You may have to retie your loop if it is not. If you have a cable driven rest you may want to be a 16th to an 8th inch nock high on the string. If you have a limb driven rest you will want to tie one soft knot on the bottom of your nock. You may in fact be shooting high due to nock pinch. The soft knot will help with that if your arrow isn't sitting flush on your rest. I would say you could also try twisting your cables, however binary cams are supposed to run in sync so I don't think I'd do that. Also I can't remember how it works

 

[mfllood3800]

I shoot Iron Will Solid 150 gr thru PSE Evoke at 70 lbs with a 460 gr arrow set up (Axis MG 350 spine) with Max Vanes in a 3 fletch

I made sure initially the bow shot bare shafts perfectly ensuring both bow and arrow were indeed tuned correctly together. Then I sighted my bow in out 80 yards with practice tips making sure my 3rd axis was also spot on as I ran down the sight bar mount. After that I installed the IW broad heads and was only off slightly. I personally don't care of they are off a little. I am sighting this bow in for hunting, not comps. I adjusted my sight to match the broad heads. Although your 10" is a lot. So let's address that with what little info we have.

Even though these are a higher profile, they are still a short vane. Yours with 4 vanes should be capable of steering these BH's. It really depends a lot on your form. They work for me but my form is decent. But when it isn't my POI is exponentially bad. I did discover this and it is no criticism of you at all, but when I have a break down in my form, my shots POI is way different with these broad heads installed VS a simple field tip. Broad heads tell on your form issues a lot. I personally believe many POI issues with broad heads is shot execution related. That bow hand is critical with broad heads, as is a good release and not a punch. This is ensuring you have tuned the bow prior and done some sort of nock tuning to the shaft and set the 3rd access, which I assume you did cause you stated you were only high and not L-R. If there is no vane clearance issue, I would revisit the target with attention to a relaxed bow hand and release, being fluid and not punchy.

 

[Zac]

The more that I think if it, I think you may be suffering from nock pinch. What nocks are you using. Do you have soft nots? One or two? Also there is no way I would ever shoot any broadhead with those tiny vanes. What is the purpose of using those?

 

[mfllood3800]

The more that I think if it, I think you may be suffering from nock pinch. What nocks are you using. Do you have soft nots? One or two? Also there is no way I would ever shoot any broadhead with those tiny vanes. What is the purpose of using those?

They are taller than an AAE 3" Hybrid type, Yet they are shorter in OAL. The advantage, In theory, is more steering, quicker, getting the shaft corrected sooner. Some will argue The lower profile type vanes are quieter and retain better speed at further distances. I am using both the AAE 3.0 hybrid and these AAE Hunter pro, both in a 3 fletch configuration. I have tried 4 fletch before in other various vane types. I personally saw no gain. I take time to have true spinning arrows when done as well as a perfectly tuned bow for the arrow of choice. My mid range shots @ 40-60 yards do appear to be more consistent with the hunter pros. But my longer shots @70-90 yards seem to group better with the AAE hybrids.


To the OP- You can tell if there's serious nock pinch, as mentioned, if when you draw back, the arrow shaft hops or lifts off the rest. Sometimes the nock pinch isn't as serious or noticeable, but still manifests in POI. Having a slight amount of vertical nock travel between the D loop ends resolves this. I personally tie a 3 stack nock point on top and 4 stack on bottom. The bottom nock point is slightly bigger. I also ensure I still have a mm or two of play up and down on my nock when string is sitting taunt. When the bow is my draw board at full draw with the nocks I use and the serving diameter I have no pinch at all.

 

[Bill V]

Here is a general list I've posted before of potential issues to check if your broadhead is not hitting with field points. For it to be hitting that high consistently, it sounds like your arrow isn't coming straight out of the bow. I'd paper tune and then check a bare shaft vs a fletched shaft at 20-40 yards to see if they hit together and parallel. The small vane concerns me a bit also, since I haven't personally tested one that small with our broadheads.


Fletch is too small. Broadheads have more surface area for pressure to act on at the front of your arrow, so you need more drag at the back of your arrow to maintain stability. Very small target fletchings may not work well. Something the size of Blazer Vanes, AAE Max Hunter, Max Stealth, or Heat vanes work well in my experience.

Straight Fletch. You want your arrow to spin to add stability and resist moving off track. I recommend at least 2 degrees helical or offset. 2.5 to 3 degrees is ideal in my opinion.

Under spined. This will cause excessive flexing of the arrow at the shot and can make broadheads fly poorly. I recommend optimal spine or slightly stiff.

FOC too low. Increasing FOC will increase stability. I personally like the 12-16% range.

Check bow setup issues like cam timing, center shot position, and nock pinch.

Bow grip torque. Have someone take a video over your shoulder of you shooting to see what the bow and arrow are doing at the shot. You can also pick up tuning issues this way like the arrow fish-tailing. The slow motion videos work pretty well on newer phones.

Bow tuning (arrow not coming straight out of bow). I paper tune to get a bullet hole at about 12 feet. I then also shoot a bare shaft and a fletched shaft at 20 & 30 yards and make small adjustment as needed to get them to hit close the same spot with the shafts parallel.

Head not spinning true. Spin each arrow to see if the tip stays on center or wobbles side to side which will cause poor flight. The arrow, insert, or broadhead could be the cause.

Good hunting,
Bill

 

[mfllood3800]

Here is a general list I've posted before of potential issues to check if your broadhead is not hitting with field points. For it to be hitting that high consistently, it sounds like your arrow isn't coming straight out of the bow. I'd paper tune and then check a bare shaft vs a fletched shaft at 20-40 yards to see if they hit together and parallel. The small vane concerns me a bit also, since I haven't personally tested one that small with our broadheads.


Fletch is too small. Broadheads have more surface area for pressure to act on at the front of your arrow, so you need more drag at the back of your arrow to maintain stability. Very small target fletchings may not work well. Something the size of Blazer Vanes, AAE Max Hunter, Max Stealth, or Heat vanes work well in my experience.

Straight Fletch. You want your arrow to spin to add stability and resist moving off track. I recommend at least 2 degrees helical or offset. 2.5 to 3 degrees is ideal in my opinion.

Under spined. This will cause excessive flexing of the arrow at the shot and can make broadheads fly poorly. I recommend optimal spine or slightly stiff.

FOC too low. Increasing FOC will increase stability. I personally like the 12-16% range.

Check bow setup issues like cam timing, center shot position, and nock pinch.

Bow grip torque. Have someone take a video over your shoulder of you shooting to see what the bow and arrow are doing at the shot. You can also pick up tuning issues this way like the arrow fish-tailing. The slow motion videos work pretty well on newer phones.

Bow tuning (arrow not coming straight out of bow). I paper tune to get a bullet hole at about 12 feet. I then also shoot a bare shaft and a fletched shaft at 20 & 30 yards and make small adjustment as needed to get them to hit close the same spot with the shafts parallel.

Head not spinning true. Spin each arrow to see if the tip stays on center or wobbles side to side which will cause poor flight. The arrow, insert, or broadhead could be the cause.

Good hunting,
Bill

Bill, these hunter pros are taller than a Blazer and almost the same length. Not quite but close. I am not having issues with them. I did have to change my sight tap for longer distances around 60-90 yards. I was dropping out of center a bit. I suspect they are creating a bit more drag than other lower profile, longer vanes would. I have only shot them with the 150 S vanes though. I do have sets of the 100 and 125, but stopped using those in lieu of wanting more front weight with less components to possibly create unwanted wobble.

 

[Zac]

Bill, these hunter pros are taller than a Blazer and almost the same length. Not quite but close. I am not having issues with them. I did have to change my sight tap for longer distances around 60-90 yards. I was dropping out of center a bit. I suspect they are creating a bit more drag than other lower profile, longer vanes would. I have only shot them with the 150 S vanes though. I do have sets of the 100 and 125, but stopped using those in lieu of wanting more front weight with less components to possibly create unwanted wobble.

I think I was confused and thought you were using AAE Pro Max. Max Hunter's are great vanes for broadheads. Especially 4 of them.

 

[mfllood3800]

Yep, these aren't target vanes by any means, lol, as I stated , I have no issues with them at a 3 fletch. 4 is over kill and creates more unwanted noise and depletes speed down range. But if you're only shooting out to 40- 60 yards it's likely no biggy as long as you can get clearance, as these are a higher profile vane

 

[IdahoHntr]

Bill, these hunter pros are taller than a Blazer and almost the same length. Not quite but close. I am not having issues with them. I did have to change my sight tap for longer distances around 60-90 yards. I was dropping out of center a bit. I suspect they are creating a bit more drag than other lower profile, longer vanes would. I have only shot them with the 150 S vanes though. I do have sets of the 100 and 125, but stopped using those in lieu of wanting more front weight with less components to possibly create unwanted wobble.

The OP, who he is referring to, says he is using the AAE Pro max vanes not the Max hunters. AAE specifically says the Pro max vanes are for 3D and mechanical broadheads, but not a great fixed blade vane. The pro max is both shorter in length and height than a blazer. They are a very small vane. The Max hunters on the other hand are a great hunting vane and specifically designed to better steer fixed blade heads.

 

[Bill V]

Yes, IdahoHntr is correct, the AAE Max Hunter is a great vane for fixed broadheads and I'm currently using them myself at 2.5 degrees offset. The Pro Max is the one I'm concerned is too small for fixed blade heads.

 

[Zac]

I'm so confused, is he using the Pro Max or the Max Hunter

 

[Trial153]

OP said pro max. Pro max can can barely stabilizer a low profile mechanical head. And even for that I wouldn't recommend them.

Pick a higher profile and longer vane and start over..

 

[Brendan]

I'm so confused, is he using the Pro Max or the Max Hunter

Here's your answer, in the original post:

Hey guys I'm having issues tuning my IW s100 broad heads. My setup is:

Mathews Halon 32 at 70lbs
28 inch DL
VAP Elite 350 Spine with 4 Fletch AAE Pro max vanes (Right Helical) and wrap
Arrow weight is 420 grains

The Iron Wills are shooting 10 inches high at 60 yards! I micro adjusted my rest down but i'm still shooting high.

OP - Your vanes might be fine because you're running a 4 fletch and a helical, but pro max are not considered a hunting vane. Definitely not ideal. Tuning is possible, but you need to be more dead on, and your form needs to be good as well. You'd be better off with a Max Hunter or Max Stealth type of vane.

If you want to keep trying: When you said your field points are shooting low - what does that mean? Do your slick tricks and field points hit at the same point? The goal is to adjust your tune until your broadheads and field points hit the same, and then adjust your sight so they're centered on the bullseye.

You've been given solid advice above though - I'd check for nock pinch, keep moving rest down, or re-tie my d-loop and nock set such that you've got a 90 degree arrow through the center of the berger hole as a starting point.

 

[Zac]

I struggled a lot with nock pinch. Torqueless D loop with a soft knot on top worked extremely well. Beiter Hunter nocks also made a huge difference. The advice given above by Brendan is spot on. Another thing you could try is 4 fletching a two inch profile vane such as the Blazer. Some very high level archers (Kyle Douglas, and Mark Hayes from Mathews) have been doing this and getting great results with fixed blades.

 

[roosiebull]

i don't have much to add besides stating that iron will heads are the most forgiving broadheads i have shot, i was purposely seeing how touchy they were, and i have found them to be the opposite. if i was getting any significant impact differences with IW heads, i would assume something is substantially wrong with my tune.

 

[Violent Hippie]

So many nice heads out there . If they arent grouping and others are its a NO BRAINER IMO. Ive never used I.W. heads but follow the same protocol with all projectiles. Some work for your exact set up and some dont.

 

[Zac]

So many nice heads out there . If they arent grouping and others are its a NO BRAINER IMO. Ive never used I.W. heads but follow the same protocol with all projectiles. Some work for your exact set up and some dont.

I can guarantee you this is not a broadhead issue. If you start chasing other heads to fix your tuning issues your going to waste a bunch of money and end up with a mechanical.

 

[dsotm223]

I didnt thoroughly read all comments so I'll throw out there, sounds like a cam timing issue to me.
Top cam faster if I remember right.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

 

[JayTx]

I'll add to this even though I'm a little late. I'm working on arrows for next year and ordered AAE hybrids 26 to shoot 3 blade VPA's. I shoot 4 fletch with as much offset as I can get with the Bitz unfortunately the AAE Hybrids will not work with the VPA's with my setup. I tried an arrow with Vanetec 3.0 V-Max in the same configuration and they fly great to 50 yards. The size is almost identical but the Vanetecs are a little stiffer so I'm guessing it stabilizers better/quicker. I really wanted the AAE to work but I'll use them for 3d courses. If I could get 4" vanes to work with my rest I would use some. I don't think there's such a thing as to much vane when it comes to broadheads.