Broadhead help

[Finch]

Would turning the nocks possibly help this situation? My arrows have done some crazy things until I found that sweet spot by turning the nocks.

 

[Phil4]

Go shoot again today with a clear head and like it never happened. Slick Tricks first so you aren't fatigued. I've freaked myself out shooting to the point of bad muscle fatigue thinking my setup was jacked right before the season. Turned out it was me. Not saying that's the issue but I'd eliminate that possibility. The wind comment above is another good thought. Good luck! Hope to see a big dead Ram in this thread when you get back!


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[mtnhntr]

Thanks for all the feedback. So with FPs I'm experiencing no notable issues, and actually very accurate groups out to 70 - have been for some time. It was when I stretched back beyond 40 with the BHs that everything went awry.

So over the past couple day's I've tore everything apart and checked it and consulted some of my other shooter friends as well. I'm not a novice to tuning so, that's what's been bugging me the most. Based on everything I've ever done it should shoot....BUT here's our conclusion I'm over-splined. I have a protected area to shoot out to 75 yards, and I set up paper tuners at a several different distances. It appears that at about 45ish yards that over-spline behavior in the arrow is enough (with a fixed blade) to get it to plane. Oddly enough I had a couple 2 blades and they didn't plane nearly as bad as the Slick Tricks or Thunderheads. Just to validate the arrow rest with FPs I thought I should see some of this deviation in walk-back tuning, but I saw none - if I could hold the pin they all dropped right in my 4" circle at 50-60-70.That said, it's way to close to leaving to change arrows so I picked up a pack of Hypodermics to see how well they shoot. If they shoot well I'm going to go that route for this trip. I have a musk ox hunt coming up, so before that I'll change up my arrow and get this resolved.

I'm all ears if anyone has any other thoughts...

 

[5MilesBack]

I'm all ears if anyone has any other thoughts...

You say FP's are all on with a walk back, but have you tried a walk back and adjusted with the Slick Tricks?

What are both arrows looking like at 60 yards? 70? How far off are the BH arrows, and where is the impact in relation to the FP's?

What fletching are you using?

Throwing extra wings on the front of the arrow exemplifies and compounds everything, and will show you immediately if there's a problem with your setup......just as it's doing. And the further distance you shoot, the more it will show you that. That's why I start at 60 for tuning. You should still be able to tune adequately with an over-spined arrow. What rest are you using?

 

[jmez]

In your current situation you are far better off just shooting the mechanical heads and not worrying about this.

Arrow spine gets a lot of press. In 30+ years of shooting bows I have never had a tuning issue trace back to arrow spine. Arrows that are clearly too weak for your set up would be a problem. Stiff arrows should never be a problem. Groups with FP's tell you nothing about the tune of your bow. They also tell you nothing about your form. Fixed blade broadheads or bareshafts will tell you about both form and tune.

If your broadheads aren't flying correctly then you have a form/tune issue, likely both.

 

[mtnhntr]

You say FP's are all on with a walk back, but have you tried a walk back and adjusted with the Slick Tricks?

What are both arrows looking like at 60 yards? 70? How far off are the BH arrows, and where is the impact in relation to the FP's?

What fletching are you using?

Throwing extra wings on the front of the arrow exemplifies and compounds everything, and will show you immediately if there's a problem with your setup......just as it's doing. And the further distance you shoot, the more it will show you that. That's why I start at 60 for tuning. You should still be able to tune adequately with an over-spined arrow. What rest are you using?

I walked back with the STs and had that hard right issue. I never got back to 60 - at 50 it was almost off a 3'x3' target consistently 3x in a row. The STs were about 16" right and maybe 2" low at 50 - that was after being dead to rights from 0-40. I shoot 3.5" X-vanes and run a QAD HDX.

 

[mtnhntr]

In your current situation you are far better off just shooting the mechanical heads and not worrying about this.

Arrow spine gets a lot of press. In 30+ years of shooting bows I have never had a tuning issue trace back to arrow spine. Arrows that are clearly too weak for your set up would be a problem. Stiff arrows should never be a problem. Groups with FP's tell you nothing about the tune of your bow. They also tell you nothing about your form. Fixed blade broadheads or bareshafts will tell you about both form and tune.

If your broadheads aren't flying correctly then you have a form/tune issue, likely both.

I agree on both. I shot the Hypodermics this morning and they fly well; and also believe that I should be able to tune being over splined. I've hunted all over the globe with my bow for the better part of 25 years and always shot super super heavy and definitely over splined arrows without any tuning issues. This is my first trip and newer bow in about 5-6 years, so maybe this set-up isn't as forgiving as I was accustomed to all these years. I'm not sure. I've taken my fair share of game with a bow well over 100 yards before I had to hang it up and get a real job - so I'm fairly confident in my form and tuning ability, but will admit when I don't know something - hence why I'm asking here and with my pro-shop friends. Just never seen anything quite like this. I have noticed that this Mathews is much more finicky with grip than any of my Hoyt's ever were, but I've coached myself to be very cognizant of that when shooting.

 

[eLightfoot]

have you shot bare shafts? Im no pro tuner but checking bare shafts and getting them to fly straight out of the bow with fleched arrows has made broadhead flight a non issue.

 

[Blockcaver]

Helical or offset on your vanes to impart spin to the arrow? Straight fletch parallel to the shaft can give really poor results with fixed blade heads in my experience.

Also, just go hunt hunt with your Spitfires if they shoot good. A bunch of really succesful BC bowhunters I know shoot everything with them......grizzlies, moose, black bears, stone sheep etc.

Note that Midway Shooters Supply had a good sale on Spitfires a few weeks ago. Really fast shipping too if you need it.

Good luck on the sheep hunt!

 

[2blade]

have you shot bare shafts? Im no pro tuner but checking bare shafts and getting them to fly straight out of the bow with fleched arrows has made broadhead flight a non issue.

+1 works every time for me too

 

[mtnhntr]

Helical or offset on your vanes to impart spin to the arrow? Straight fletch parallel to the shaft can give really poor results with fixed blade heads in my experience.

Also, just go hunt hunt with your Spitfires if they shoot good. A bunch of really succesful BC bowhunters I know shoot everything with them......grizzlies, moose, black bears, stone sheep etc.

Note that Midway Shooters Supply had a good sale on Spitfires a few weeks ago. Really fast shipping too if you need it.

Good luck on the sheep hunt!

I shoot right helical on my vanes. This spring I finally departed from 5" feathers and tried 3.5" shield cut vanes. Have really enjoyed the quieter shooting, but maybe I've always had crummy form and all the forgiveness in everything just saved me from myself... LOL

 

[5MilesBack]

A couple other things........first I'd check the timing on your QAD to ensure you're not getting any fletching contact. You can use the high speed camera on an Iphone 6 or similar, or use lipstick on your vanes and check your rest prongs. I like the high speed camera. You can slow it down and actually see your rest in the down position before your fletching gets to it. It's pretty cool.

Second.....a couple years ago I had a bow perfectly bare shaft tuned and although arrows seemed fine at 20, 30, and 40 yards on target, my 3D scores were lower than they've ever been. And my long range groups were pitiful, worst ever. At a 3D shoot I started noticing a tail whip on some of the targets that had a good backdrop to see that sort of thing. I normally never see my arrows.

After that, I came home and did a broadhead tune at 60 yards. My Bh's were 12" right of FP's. I adjusted my rest until I had both smacking the bullseye. Immediately my shooting returned to "my normal", and this year my 3D scores are back up where they should be.

Also, do you have any lighted nocks laying around. I don't like their fit on my string (too tight) but I do like using them to watch my arrow flight down range and see what they're doing. The light shows very well any tail whip, porpoising, barrel rolling, etc.

 

[Beendare]

...... Groups with FP's tell you nothing about the tune of your bow. They also tell you nothing about your form. Fixed blade broadheads or bareshafts will tell you about both form and tune.

If your broadheads aren't flying correctly then you have a form/tune issue, likely both.

^ This pretty much nails it assuming you have perfect arrow assembly...and no fletch contact.

Whenever I hear someone saying they can see their arrows flying bad one thought is; Peeking

You can rule out overspined as your problem........whomever is telling you that one is not someone to listen to.

 

[Will_m]

I agree on both. I shot the Hypodermics this morning and they fly well; and also believe that I should be able to tune being over splined. I've hunted all over the globe with my bow for the better part of 25 years and always shot super super heavy and definitely over splined arrows without any tuning issues. This is my first trip and newer bow in about 5-6 years, so maybe this set-up isn't as forgiving as I was accustomed to all these years. I'm not sure. I've taken my fair share of game with a bow well over 100 yards before I had to hang it up and get a real job - so I'm fairly confident in my form and tuning ability, but will admit when I don't know something - hence why I'm asking here and with my pro-shop friends. Just never seen anything quite like this. I have noticed that this Mathews is much more finicky with grip than any of my Hoyt's ever were, but I've coached myself to be very cognizant of that when shooting.

Do tell.

 

[mtnhntr]

A couple other things........first I'd check the timing on your QAD to ensure you're not getting any fletching contact. You can use the high speed camera on an Iphone 6 or similar, or use lipstick on your vanes and check your rest prongs. I like the high speed camera. You can slow it down and actually see your rest in the down position before your fletching gets to it. It's pretty cool.

Second.....a couple years ago I had a bow perfectly bare shaft tuned and although arrows seemed fine at 20, 30, and 40 yards on target, my 3D scores were lower than they've ever been. And my long range groups were pitiful, worst ever. At a 3D shoot I started noticing a tail whip on some of the targets that had a good backdrop to see that sort of thing. I normally never see my arrows.

After that, I came home and did a broadhead tune at 60 yards. My Bh's were 12" right of FP's. I adjusted my rest until I had both smacking the bullseye. Immediately my shooting returned to "my normal", and this year my 3D scores are back up where they should be.

Also, do you have any lighted nocks laying around. I don't like their fit on my string (too tight) but I do like using them to watch my arrow flight down range and see what they're doing. The light shows very well any tail whip, porpoising, barrel rolling, etc.

My set-up is rather slow, and I have good follow through, so I keep a solid eye on my arrows through to impact. When I'm solid they fly good and straight with the FPs. I've never really toyed with lighted nocks. Back when I was doing a lot of hunting, that wasn't permitted by P&Y so I never looked at them. After trouble shooting the last couple days I made a few very minor adjustments via walk-back tuning, and I'm getting everything to drop in today like I had before this debacle. Also shot Hypodermic+Ps out of it and they flew like a charm, so I picked up a dozen and I'm going to roll with this for my trip. Before deer season this fall I'll strip the whole damn thing down and see if I can root anything out.

 

[mtnhntr]

Do tell.

Do tell what? Shot tons of caribou and quite a few antelope at 100+. At the time I was trying to complete my super slam with a bow, and get it done before I was 30. I'd taken most with both gun and bow. I'm just lacking 3 of the 4 sheep with my bow and a musk ox to have it done. I had to quit hunting when the recession hit - hence the real job. Been on several stone and bighorn hunts with no luck - so I'm hoping to get my bighorn on this trip!!

 

[Jacob Chapman]

Do tell what? Shot tons of caribou and quite a few antelope at 100+. At the time I was trying to complete my super slam with a bow, and get it done before I was 30. I'd taken most with both gun and bow. I'm just lacking 3 of the 4 sheep with my bow and a musk ox to have it done. I had to quit hunting when the recession hit - hence the real job. Been on several stone and bighorn hunts with no luck - so I'm hoping to get my bighorn on this trip!!

Good luck, hope you get one! That's one of my dream hunts for sure. Take plenty of pictures for us poor b@st@rds that haven't gotten to chase them yet

 

[Will_m]

Do tell what? Shot tons of caribou and quite a few antelope at 100+. At the time I was trying to complete my super slam with a bow, and get it done before I was 30. I'd taken most with both gun and bow. I'm just lacking 3 of the 4 sheep with my bow and a musk ox to have it done. I had to quit hunting when the recession hit - hence the real job. Been on several stone and bighorn hunts with no luck - so I'm hoping to get my bighorn on this trip!!

100 yard shots as a matter of routine? I don't doubt your ability but you make it sound like its just a matter of course.

Excellent archer or not, there's a lot that comes into play stretching it out that far on a live animal. I was simply interested in more elaboration on that statement. I am genuinely interested in the subject itself.

 

[MattB]

Why not shoot the spitfire that goes where it is supposed too?

This

 

[mtnhntr]

100 yard shots as a matter of routine? I don't doubt your ability but you make it sound like its just a matter of course.

Excellent archer or not, there's a lot that comes into play stretching it out that far on a live animal. I was simply interested in more elaboration on that statement. I am genuinely interested in the subject itself.

Got it. Yeah, back when all I did was shoot and hunt I got super proficient out to 125 with a fixed pin sight and a 95# bow. I'd prefer to shoot most critters between 20-40 but when you run out of cover you got to muster all that practice and confidence and play your hand. I'd never profess to be excellent, more technically competent than anything else - basically if this happens, then how/where do I adjust. When I got into doing all these trips I learned to strip a bow down and repair it in the field quite well. But that was years back. Hell I cant even use my portable press on my bow. I have no idea other than jerry-rigging a block and tackle how I'd change my string/cables if something happened. As nice as these new bows are, I miss being able to take my string off the teardrops LOL