Bowhunting shots and string jumping

[Beendare]

Ive been shooting an ILF recurve that is the best combo of smooth and fast- that ive tried anyway.

Im starting to reconsider this setup for hunting. Its pretty quiet.... but maybe not quiet enough.

I think we all agree on getting close shots- lets say under 25 yds or so. Ive shot whitetails, hogs, Javelina.... and shot AT a couple orher animals such as Axis and coyotes.Not an issue with species like elk and moose.

Some of these species are incredible string jumpers. Im starting to see a pattern where Im getting too much animal reaction with my recurve on these close shots.
Anybody seeing the same?

I think im going to start hunting with my longbow limbs.

 

[sneaky]

You shooting 3 under or split? My Titan III gave me fits for a while trying to track down the source of various little rattles and what not. Finally got it dialed, but I hunted this year with my Stalker Coyote.

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[Beendare]

So here’s a couple examples. Axis deer that are completely gone before my arrow gets there at 25 yards.

Five shots at Javelina between 20 and 25 yards, gone before the arrow got there. One javi moved on the shot gut shot at 30 yds.

Hogs have been about 50/50, some jump some dont.

Whitetails same 50/50..... and of course having some environmental noise like a little wind or rain always makes things better than having it be completely silent.
I’m just curious what other guys experience has been

 

[sneaky]

What kind of silencers you running on your string?

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[bsnedeker]

Ok, so I'm a compound guy, but here's how I think about this: Let's say I shoot 300 fps with my compound, and let's say you shoot 150 FPS with your recurve. At 25 yards it takes my bow .5 seconds to get to the deer, and it would take your bow .25 seconds longer. Of course, in reality my bow is slower than that, and your bow is probably faster than 150 FPS, so your arrow takes less than .25 seconds longer to get to the animal than mine does.

I've had deer jump the string on me at 25 yards with my compound, and I've had deer where they haven't moved an inch until after the arrow was through them. Across the board, if the deer jumped the string it was because they were spooked and aware that something was up when I pulled the trigger, and the deer that didn't jump the string were oblivious. So that is what I focus on. I only call to deer if I absolutely must because called in deer are always on alert looking for whatever made that sound. Deer that come in on their own are entirely different.

Of course I'm not saying you don't need to worry about the sound your bow makes, and if you can quiet it down that's a good idea, but just remember that it isn't the only factor in deer jumping the string and, in my opinion, it is less important than shooting at animals who are not on guard.

 

[Beendare]

Across the board, if the deer jumped the string it was because they were spooked and aware that something was up when I pulled the trigger, and the deer that didn't jump the string were oblivious. So that is what I focus on. I only call to deer if I absolutely must because called in deer are always on alert looking for whatever made that sound. Deer that come in on their own are entirely different.

Of course I'm not saying you don't need to worry about the sound your bow makes, and if you can quiet it down that's a good idea, but just remember that it isn't the only factor in deer jumping the string and, in my opinion, it is less important than shooting at animals who are not on guard.

Good Comment/point^....and its true in many cases..........but not the case here in the examples I've cited.

Those Axis never knew I was there.....the Javi's never knew either. Both species just flat out reacted to the bow. I typically don't shoot at aware animals. Some of the slow reacting animals like sheep, goats, moose, bears, elk- not a problem.

My one setup was a little low on BH when I had my most recent jump the string....a little louder than it usually is...but still not horrible. This setup is; morrison 17" riser, Uuhka exo limbs at 55#, SBD skinny string, wool puffs, 600gr arrow. Now I do have a little vibration in my quiver that I'm going to swap out [2 piece connected by 2 heavy wires]

I do think there is something to the notion of "Getting too close" and when I was shooting my compound I much preferred shooting stuff at 40yds....vs shooting them at 25. But stickbows are a close range weapon!

I've had Axis jump the string on my [quiet] compound at 35 yds.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Some animals simply have incredible reflexes and are wired to be twitchy. I sometimes think whitetails have an invisible cattle prod in their asses, and it goes off once in a while to keep them nervous. I had a fully mature doe drop at the shot (12 yards broadside on the ground) and the arrow flew harmlessly over her. She didn’t ‘duck’ the arrow intentionally. She did what all deer do when they spin to run: she dropped her center of gravity and loaded her leg muscles to lunge. The drop coincides with the arrival of the arrow, making it look like the deer intentionally dodged the arrow. I’ve experienced this many times and it’s no surprise to me.

No bow will shoot an arrow faster than the speed of sound (ears working) or light (eyes working). A number of twitchy animals are actually catching the sudden movement of the bow and shot sequence. Some are hearing it. The bottom line is they’re only reacting to what their senses detect. A faster arrow means less time to react, versus a 120 fps selfbow for example. Quieting a bow can only go so far, and I’ve yet to hear the first compound which is quieter than my loudest recurve or longbow. My bows are pretty quiet, but on a quiet day afield they are no match for the speed and reflexes of a whitetail, antelope, squirrel, etc.

Edit this to add the speed of sound is 1125 fps....about 4x the speed of a fast compound. Animals hear the bow before the arrows gets halfway there. The subsequent reaction (called string-jumping) is no different than me jumping at a blast of thunder (or visible bolt of lightning) with no warning. It doesn't require thought or decision. I'm not dodging the lightning and an animal isn't intentionally dodging an arrow...though the video replay often looks exactly like they did exactly that.

 

[Beendare]

Agreed Kevin ^....good commentary.

I've realized long ago when hunting with a compound.....I almost preferred shooting animals at that 40-ish mark over closer shots on days when there was no environmental conditions to hide the sound of my bow. Being sponsored by Oneida back in the day was an eye opener...the slap from those things was terrible. I had much better shot locations at 40-ish vs the closer shots as it took bow noise out of the equation. The quality of that bow noise matters too [a whole nuther discussion] as the un-natural slap of some bows is much different than the dull thud of others.

I post this thread mostly for the reason; We work so hard to get a shot- especially with a stick bow- it helps to consider all of the factors...and there are many.

So a couple years ago I stalked to within 25 yds of 28 Javelina, those things are tailor made for bowhunting. It was in the wide open grassland with only one bush about 4' tall. [BTW, its a bit of a gut check as IF those Javi's decided to attack vs scatter I would have been dog food- no way to get away from them]

My mistake was; not a whisper of wind.....and zero outside noise. So even though my bow was pretty quiet....they jumped the string. I say they [I'm embarrassed to say it was more than just one shot!] but I shot and they would dart 5' or so and hold in the grass on full alert. I shot all 4 of my arrows [excluding my one practice arrow] and then after picking up 2 of my arrows that were still sharp shot those again too. It was frustrating to watch the 'mythical flight of the arrow' look to be perfect only to have the animal jump the string.

Yeah, I'm hunting with my LB limbs for most hunts now.

 

[GLB]

Agree with what was said above. Deer are very twitchy and have amazing reflexes. Its not like the deer see the arrow coming and they duck it, its a "Startled response" to the sound.

 

[ozyclint]

i agree with what kevin has said.
however i see that your shooting the uukha evo which is a carbon limb. i have a border HEX6 which was louder than i liked and i finally tracked down the noise which was limb tip vibration. something inherent to the design i believe.

try plucking the sting heavily while watching the limb tips. the epiphany came for me when i plucked the string then immediately grabbed the string to dampen it so as to eliminate string vibration as a cause of the noise. the noise was still there and that's when i noticed the limb tips vibrating like a tuning fork. this was the source of the excessive noise.

so then i held the bow on it's side with a couple of socks draped over the limb tips and plucked the string. the noise was completely gone. the limb tips simply needed a vibration dampener.

the solution was a piece of suitably sized latex exercise tube pushed onto the limb tips with 3/4"-1" over hanging the tip. this acts as a dampener very effectively and they double as limb tip protectors.

the bow is as quiet as any recurve now.


just a suggestion that may help with getting the bow a little quieter.

 

[willfrye027]

I just switched to a recurve this year and the two whitetails I shot did not move an inch. In the same area (public ground) I almost always had them jump a bit with my compound. My compound was actually a little quieter at the shot, but I was shooting blazer vanes and there was quite a bit of arrow noise. My recurve set up is feathers with a solid two blade broadhead and is very quiet in flight. My current theory is that quiet arrow flight is key. When guys make videos with a camera on top of the target you can really hear that arrow buzzing towards it and it makes ME want to duck! But who knows...all good thoughts and suggestions above.

 

[Beendare]

I suppose there are cases where an animal flinches due to the arrow...but think about it; by the time they hear the arrow it is so close to them they cannot do anything about it.

Its the bow noise bro.

 

[Kevin Dill]

If the arrow is 20% of the noise equation, the bow is 80%. And it's not necessarily about the volume of the sound as much as it is the type of sound. Think 'thump' compared to 'whap' or something like that. The sharper sound gets the wilder reaction.

 

[Ddog]

I mess with my set-ups until I get them as quiet (to me) as possible and still get ducked far too often. Nothing sucks worse than finally getting a shot off only to watch the deer drop under the arrow. Super spooky public land MI deer, gotta love 'em.

 

[Ranch Fairy]

100% on every kill on my you tube channel. I am going to further investigate this over 2019. Dr Grant Woods and I talked about this. He built a chart based upon gravity...and somehow animals still get out of the way. But, he did provide excellent insight. “Troy, you are shooting an arrow at the best animals on the planet, best reflexes, having survived daily predation attempts and people for years, the slow ones got eaten”.

Then I started slowing down the kills on my channel. All of a sudden we start wondering what is going on ... This video was quite an eye opener. Arrows from 500-800 grains. Most interesting is the distance from the animal to the arrow, when they start to jump, seems to be quite consistent. But arrow speed in this video varies.
One bow is 83#’s@31” - “them arruhs is trucking”

So, the more I shoot EFOC, highly durable arrows, with monotlithic broadheads, COC’s and single bevels. Then I connect the dots and I think this thread shows we agree on this - but probably not, someone will find a minute detail.....
But I digress. Here’s a list of things that I will study.
1. you can control where you intend the arrow to hit - practice, tune arrows, great arrow flight, ethical shots, etc.
2. BUT - once you release the arrow, or hit the trigger on your release, YOU CANNOT control shot placement, the animals have the drop on us. The animals control shot placement. We can only control intended impact point.
3. The question then....if they decide your fate, if they decide to to move inconsistently and add more bones into the equation, can the arrow handle what we were not planning to hit?

More exploration of this in 2019. Its super fun having a bottomless supply of constantly moving and jumpy targets. “Like dude” you can see facts and such things. Stay tuned “project Dik Dik” is going to be interesting.

 

[willfrye027]

I suppose there are cases where an animal flinches due to the arrow...but think about it; by the time they hear the arrow it is so close to them they cannot do anything about it.

Its the bow noise bro.

I think it’s both. Deer hears thump/thwap, goes on high alert. Hears thump plus buzzing of big plastic vanes or big noisy broadhead, deer flips out. I am definitely not as experienced as many people commenting here though so my observations are not as valuable. But it’s worthwhile to consider both bow and arrow noise IMO. Control what you can and hope for the best

 

[Beendare]

try plucking the sting heavily while watching the limb tips. the epiphany came for me when i plucked the string then immediately grabbed the string to dampen it so as to eliminate string vibration as a cause of the noise. the noise was still there and that's when i noticed the limb tips vibrating like a tuning fork. this was the source of the excessive noise.

so then i held the bow on it's side with a couple of socks draped over the limb tips and plucked the string. the noise was completely gone. the limb tips simply needed a vibration dampener.

the solution was a piece of suitably sized latex exercise tube pushed onto the limb tips with 3/4"-1" over hanging the tip. this acts as a dampener very effectively and they double as limb tip protectors.

Good post....but the Uukhas aren't the same as the super curve limbs like the Borders. They don't have an extended vibration. The limb tips on the Uukhas are tiny so putting anything over those is going to be a trick....its hard enough to get a string changer over those tips.

I recently had a replay of my string jumping on Javi's in Az. I took multiple shots at a group of Javi's at 25 or so yards. They would react to the string [and I tell you its not that loud!] and bolt 5' and stop...not really knowing what was going on....giving me another shot. I finally connected at 30 yds but even that Javi moved and I gut shot him. Took me awhile to run him down.

Some of the noise in my bow is the 2 wires connecting the hood and bottom of my quiver. This bow is a little quieter without the quiver...so I need to work on that. One things for sure, I prefer a little ambient noise...a little wind helps. When its dead calm at that 25yd range is when I see the most string jumping.

I've shot whitetails at 13,15 yds on a calm day[recurve limbs but a different setup] and they didn't have time to react. I've never had an issue when there was a little wind.

 

[oldgoat]

I haven't shot at tons of game, but I've shot at a few now and so far, only string jumping I've had was on alert animals that I had already missed and was taking a second shot, most have been at Whitetails in public hunting areas. This is with both longbows and recurves, hunted with ILF a couple of seasons but don't think I hunted deer with it. I think the key is quiet and that may take some experimenting with any type of recurve. Different string material, brace height, padded loops, arrows weight, blah blah blah. Longbow is the best way to go if you really want quiet and want to stay ILF, get a set of the Dryad ACS ILF longbow limbs, you'll have good speed and inherent quietness compared to most recurve limbs.

 

[Beendare]

.....Longbow is the best way to go if you really want quiet and want to stay ILF, get a set of the Dryad ACS ILF longbow limbs, you'll have good speed and inherent quietness compared to most recurve limbs.

Yeah, good advice- thx. I have a set of those limbs....they are dead quiet...and surprisingly fast for a longbow.

I'm going to play around with my recurve setups...quiet the quiver, maybe add another string puff. My W&W and SF recurve limbs are a little quieter than my Uuhkas.

I'm probably making a bigger deal out of this than it deserves....I think a slingshot would get some of these animals jumping on a dead quiet day in close.

 

[LostArra]

Some animals simply have incredible reflexes and are wired to be twitchy. I sometimes think whitetails have an invisible cattle prod in their asses, and it goes off once in a while to keep them nervous. I had a fully mature doe drop at the shot (12 yards broadside on the ground) and the arrow flew harmlessly over her. She didn’t ‘duck’ the arrow intentionally. She did what all deer do when they spin to run: she dropped her center of gravity and loaded her leg muscles to lunge. The drop coincides with the arrival of the arrow, making it look like the deer intentionally dodged the arrow. I’ve experienced this many times and it’s no surprise to me.

No bow will shoot an arrow faster than the speed of sound (ears working) or light (eyes working). A number of twitchy animals are actually catching the sudden movement of the bow and shot sequence. Some are hearing it. The bottom line is they’re only reacting to what their senses detect. A faster arrow means less time to react, versus a 120 fps selfbow for example. Quieting a bow can only go so far, and I’ve yet to hear the first compound which is quieter than my loudest recurve or longbow. My bows are pretty quiet, but on a quiet day afield they are no match for the speed and reflexes of a whitetail, antelope, squirrel, etc.

Edit this to add the speed of sound is 1125 fps....about 4x the speed of a fast compound. Animals hear the bow before the arrows gets halfway there. The subsequent reaction (called string-jumping) is no different than me jumping at a blast of thunder (or visible bolt of lightning) with no warning. It doesn't require thought or decision. I'm not dodging the lightning and an animal isn't intentionally dodging an arrow...though the video replay often looks exactly like they did exactly that.

Anyone else see this? The hunt videos of deer avoiding arrows is impressive. The research part was interesting but it's not always possible to predict which animal is going to turn inside out or just stand motionless.

https://tinyurl.com/yb5eah26