Bow hunters over calling

[5MilesBack]

If you've done much elk hunting and saw what I saw this season you'd probably understand what I'm getting at instead of being cute

Everybody I've talked to this year had similar reports of lack of elk or lack of bugling in multiple states and multiple units. The elk didn't just suddenly stop bugling or disappear from all those areas because of some guys that were over-calling in past years or this year. You know.......the last smoke-filled season I hunted was pretty dead as well. Perhaps all this smoke has more to do with it than over-calling.

 

[justinspicher]

I think I over walk areas during the hunting season.......

 

[KHNC]

I think I over walk areas during the hunting season.......

In New Mexico during second archery, we found a track we called bigfoot. Damn biggest boot print i have ever seen!! Yuge!! 17-20 if they go that big. Dude had a super long stride too. His damn track was literally everywhere in the unit we went. Couldnt believe it. That guy covered some serious ground during first season. Dont know if he killed or not, but the damn elk were nearly silent this year and camps all over the place .NO way they all had tags, just lots of buddy assists i think.

 

[AaronMColeman]

I think this year has been tough overall for most of the western US. Much more quiet than last year. Last year mid-archery season, even after I had "educated" a lot of bulls, I called in 5 at one time...at least 2 had been "educated" by me the night before! And they still came in.

This year, barely any luck calling them in, and not a ton of luck at even some location bugles or round up calls. So, I chalk this up to 2020...it's a mystery year.

Also, I agree that a lot of hunters do "educate" the elk. Bad setups, and bad calls let the bulls come up and see or smell or hear something that isn't right. Makes it harder on the next hunter in line.

BUT...we've all been the bad caller and set up in bad places to educate the elk (or is is just me that had this learning curve). It kinda sucks, but we all have to learn and there's only one way to learn how to hunt elk! Hey, I'm guilty of educating elk even as recently as two days ago.

 

[BRTreedogs]

What if I know I'm not good enough to kill the herd bull and am just trying to kill any elk dumb enough to check me out?

 

[AaronMColeman]

Last couple thoughts. I don't think a lot of the migratory elk have moved from the high country to the lower areas (i.e to the spots we are all used to hunting). So there aren't as many elk in huntable areas yet. Too hot and dry and why would they leave good feed and less hunters? Also I've seen two wolves, a couple grizzly, and TONS of wolf tracks compared to last season. Could predation be up since last season? Scares the elk and wipes out the younger parts of the herd? I don't know just a thought.

Bugling isn't the problem, calling isn't the problem. The problem is doing so without a plan! Not knowing how elk behave, and how to call to them based on behavior is what educates them. A good setup, well thought out calling (even if the calling itself sucks) will work. It's mindless calling and hoping the bull will come to you every time that becomes a problem. No biggie, just educate the other hunters you go out with and hopfully they'll educate their buddies and we will all call in a smart way (haha, not gonna happen).

 

[AaronMColeman]

What if I know I'm not good enough to kill the herd bull and am just trying to kill any elk dumb enough to check me out?

This is 95% of us hunting elk. I said it above, and I think it's the key to calling elk, the quality of the call is 10% of the equation. Knowing elk behavior and calling accordingly is 90% of the equation. I'm not great, but learning about elk and how they communicate and what they're thinking based on how they're communicating is the real key.

 

[Wrench]

I found that covid time off put more people in the woods than any other time. I had to go deeper and nastier to find bulls....but they were there and they did talk and respond.

Between berry pickers, photography, hiker, biker and camper traffic there was simply more pressure.

We fell into a perfect moon phase but my area had impossible stalking due to walking on cornflakes with 3 weeks of no rain.

I use the environmental and human pressure to my advantage.

 

[MallardSX2]

Calling setup is 100% more important than calling itself. Bulls with cows you will need to change your tactics dramatically for success...

 

[dreamingbig]

After hunting super hard for elk every day last month I'm really bummed out with how call shy the bulls are getting.
I managed to call one 5 point bull in for my buddy (which he shot) and that was it!
I'm in an area where I used to call bulls in almost every time I go out.

Sadly I saw way way more guys in the woods this year in places that I never have, and one thing I noticed is how everyone is over calling.
If you're new to bow hunting please take this advice, STOP bugling and cow calling at herd bulls that are all cowed up.
They know somethings up when you call over and over again, and you won't bring them away from their cows
YOU'RE educating all of them!

Anyone else noticing this in the woods?

I don’t know... My first thought was “do you need a hug bro?” It is public land and they can do as they please. Work harder and be creative. They are still callable and you can’t worry about Doug Flutey educating them.


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[AaronMColeman]

I don’t know... My first thought was “do you need a hug bro?” It is public land and they can do as they please. Work harder and be creative. They are still callable and you can’t worry about Doug Flutey educating them.


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I heard 3 perfect four-note bugles this year. I was convinced they were hunters. Bulls rarely call out the way youtube videos do. But sure enough they had antlers and no orange hats on . I made other mistakes and spooked them off. Public land is tougher than ever this year...but it's their land too, the campers, huynters etc. all have teh same right I do to take the same animals they own.

 

[grossklw]

Meh- you hunt how you want and I'll hunt how I want. I don't drive 1500 miles to try and sneak in and shadow a herd, I drive 1500 miles for the interaction of a bull screaming in my face, if it's a spike or a 320 I shake the same; that's why I'm there. I can't get that interaction hunting thick timber swallowing my call and softly cow calling at satellite's, I want them pissed. I blow a couple diaphragms out every trip out west, I'm in the group of calling too much, which I can live with. I've only been on 4 elk hunts so maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I've yet to eat tag soup.
Side note- the elk do adapt to people. We hunted a crazy busy OTC unit in Idaho this year, we had one day where 4 bulls bugled from sun up to 2:30 pm every five minutes. We couldn't get within 200 yards because of swirling winds and a couple of knuckleheads came straight up the drainage and blew em out but that's public hunting. But they still bugle even when pressured. We ended up having a great encounter with one of the bulls they blew out, we just didn't kill.

 

[Sled]

ever wonder why rattle snakes don't rattle as much as they used to? when you kill every rattle snake that gives away its position then you have selected that genetic trait for removal from the breeding population.

i'm not saying every elk will stop responding or bugling himself but the ones that can't shut up and respond to every call are short on the list of having a long life expectancy... and consequently their genetics too. of course during the rut even the quiet ones can't help themselves but in the absence of a hot cow they may be skeptical after running into a few hunters that sounded familiar from last year.

 

[trophyhill]

Guilty! I’m assuming you missed this thread

I Call

Obviously there is more than 1 way to skin an elk. Just ask any successful elk killer and they'll tell you. I will never go to the elkwoods and not call. And I make no secret about that. I have no doubt personally I will have more killing opportunities by calling, than not. Calling brings elk...

www.rokslide.com

 

[nphunter]

ever wonder why rattle snakes don't rattle as much as they used to? when you kill every rattle snake that gives away its position then you have selected that genetic trait for removal from the breeding population.

i'm not saying every elk will stop responding or bugling himself but the ones that can't shut up and respond to every call are short on the list of having a long life expectancy... and consequently their genetics too. of course during the rut even the quiet ones can't help themselves but in the absence of a hot cow they may be skeptical after running into a few hunters that sounded familiar from last year.

Natural Selection! IMO this comment is spot on, elk aren't getting smarter or call shy, they are getting dead. Same reason we have major die-offs every time we get a moderate winter. We use to have horrible winters every year, the deer always migrated down and survived back then, after 10+ years of mild winters almost all of those deer are dead and the ones that are alive never had to migrate. Now we get a halfway bad winter and have huge die off events, It's not that winters are worse than they were back then, the deer just haven't had to ever deal with them.

Same with the elk herds on private, there are more and more elk on private land every year. So many people think that is because they are being pushed there by people. The fact is that most of the state agencies do counts and then give out a ton of cow tags, the private guys don't let people hunt so all of those elk survive and the following year the herd is way bigger. In the meantime all the elk in the fringe areas on public ground are getting slaughtered to try to manage the numbers, after 20 years of that a lot of those fringe areas end up with very few elk while the bordering private land is packed. People who only show up for a few days a year to hunt think the elk are getting smart and moving to private land more and more. Those of us who live in the woods year-round know that those elk are always down there and most never leave the private in their entire life.

As these phenomenons are happening we as hunters have to adapt to the changes in order to continue to be successful. A lot of elk we hunt are in areas that historically never had elk, some of my old favorite go-to mule deer spots are void of deer and are now some of my best elk spots. I still hunt in rattlesnake country too, I just have learned to watch for them and know the areas they tend to be, I also don't kill them, especially the ones that give me a warning.

 

[gelton]

This thread reminds me of the story Corey Jacobsen tells when he gets back to his truck and there is a note on it telling him that he calls too much...Corey Jacobsen calls too much eh'.

He took a picture of it but I cant seem to find it.

 

[njdoxie]

Tough crowd today. The OP is just venting, elk hunting can do that to you


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[Sioux33]

I get the rant to an extent. IMO, it's not calling, but idiots that don't know how to play thermals, blow out elk, then start calling to try get them to come back. Had a herd of 25 with a nice bull coming up the draw in the morning, bugling non-stop. I'm shadowing them up the opposite side of the ridge, trying to come in under them and the thermals. Then they go silent and blow out, so I make my way into the draw, and there's two dumbasses cow calling with the wind dropping right down to where the herd used to be. These same two guys thought they should bugle and chuckle to another bull bugling on his own in the dark that morning, instead of just going down and setting up him, then calling if needed. Everyone wants to be a youtube elk calling hero these days instead of just using common sense...

 

[CJF]

I've heard Elk Nut say that if he goes into an area and has an interaction with a bull or a herd where they associate seeing or smelling a person with the calling that was presented then that area needs to "rest" for three days until that bull or herd will be receptive to calls again (this includes if someone else blows through the area and allows the elk to associate calls with sights and smells of people). I suspect it's one of the reasons that he hunts from the truck so he can keep moving to different spots everyday if need by and come back to those areas. From what I have experienced I believe this is pretty accurate....not to say there aren't exceptions but it does seem to be the rule.

As long as you (and other hunters) can call from a spot where the elk do not see you or smell you, then they will answer everyday...I've experienced this as well.

So I don't think it's necessarily calling too much....but it is calling while simultaneously bumping the elk, which I suspect a lot of people do; especially if they don't understand how the wind flows in/around the mountains and ridges they are hunting.

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Oh man this has been good for a laugh!

Never seen so many grown ass men get their little panties in a twist over the suggestion that running around the woods and over calling like a moron can change the behavior of elk.

These replies pretty much confirm that what Im seeing locally isn't an isolated phenomenon.

Im out
Let the dumpster fire continue