Bomb Proof insert/outsert. Opinions??

[aggieland]

I have used firenock outserts and have never had one fail, I have also used the Ethics insert/outsert system and have bent two but I hit a pipe fence on each shot. I'm wondering what you believe for carbon shafts is the strongest and best system? Personally I feel like if the Ethics outsert was extended down the shaft further it would be a stronger system ..

 

[sneaky]

You can run the Valkyrie system and use your choice of glue on heads with their adapters, or run their heads. It's a pretty stout system. Outserts are never going to be as strong as an insert, but they've come a long way

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[Beendare]

My take;
An outset is a flawed system for multiple reasons....plus its expensive. Can you spend a bunch of$$ and time and get them to work- sure.

I have been using Axis arrows for decades and can count on one hand the arrows I've broken.

Perfect arrow assembly is crucial....and many guys don't take the extra step to do it right...and then blame it on the arrow.

If you mill the ends on a jig-spin them against some fine sandpaper- so that the shaft seats tight to the BH- this makes a big difference in my experience on how tough those arrows are.

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[aggieland]

I build arrows the right way etc. I shoot traditional equipment I just want the strongest system available. The iron will system is peaking my interest.

 

[Kevin Dill]

I looked at several options. A man whose opinions I trust implicitly lead me to the Valkyrie system combined with Victory shafts. This type of arrow system is all new to me, though I've long been a proponent of very strong arrow builds. It took me a bit of time and effort to understand how best to utilize the Valkyrie centerpin sleeve + centerpin broadhead adapter + a strong broadhead to create a hunting arrow which is very unlikely to fail at any point aside from breaking the shaft itself. Most impressive for me has been the amazing arrow flight I see. I switched to this system last year in mid October and killed one mature deer, so no proof of component durability.

 

[sneaky]

One day I hope Victory will get their act together and start making shafts long enough for long draw trad shooters. They are off the table for me simply because most of their shafts max out at 30.5" and for a 31" draw it doesn't work. I can shoot field points with their outsert system, but anything that comes back over that shaft is a no go. Black Eagle offers lengths up to 34" on shafts, GT is 31.5- 32" on a lot of theirs, same with Easton. I've killed several deer with Victory arrows out of compounds over the years and have shot their arrows out of ILF rigs for 3D, but that was off of an elevated rest drawing the point almost to the rest with a full length shaft. Thinking about building some arrows up with the Valkyrie setup but it'll be on Black Eagle shafts because they offer the length to start with, enough to trim from both ends to square and start bare shafting.

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[aggieland]

Do you think using a lighter gpi arrow thinner walls, etc is a detriment on animal impacts? Or if the head and insert system holds strong the lighter weight shaft is irrelevant.

 

[oldgoat]

One day I hope Victory will get their act together and start making shafts long enough for long draw trad shooters. They are off the table for me simply because most of their shafts max out at 30.5" and for a 31" draw it doesn't work. I can shoot field points with their outsert system, but anything that comes back over that shaft is a no go. Black Eagle offers lengths up to 34" on shafts, GT is 31.5- 32" on a lot of theirs, same with Easton. I've killed several deer with Victory arrows out of compounds over the years and have shot their arrows out of ILF rigs for 3D, but that was off of an elevated rest drawing the point almost to the rest with a full length shaft. Thinking about building some arrows up with the Valkyrie setup but it'll be on Black Eagle shafts because they offer the length to start with, enough to trim from both ends to square and start bare shafting.

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I draw 31" and can use the VAP's with their insert/outsert, their stainless insert/outserts are the ones to use though, the aluminum are right up there with the worst aluminum inserts I've used. I also use their standard victory V-Force arrows, they come in 32".

 

[sneaky]

I draw 31" and can use the VAP's with their insert/outsert, their stainless insert/outserts are the ones to use though, the aluminum are right up there with the worst aluminum inserts I've used. I also use their standard victory V-Force arrows, they come in 32".

I can shoot field points with their stainless outserts, but not broadheads. If I'm shooting standard diameter shafts I use the PSE X weaves, toughest standard shaft I've ever used. According to Victory even their VForce are only 31 now

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[ozyclint]

i shoot axis shafts with a 2.5" 2020 alloy footing on one setup and a 3.5" 2020 footing on another.

nigh on indestructible

 

[oldgoat]

I can shoot field points with their stainless outserts, but not broadheads. If I'm shooting standard diameter shafts I use the PSE X weaves, toughest standard shaft I've ever used. According to Victory even their VForce are only 31 now

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You might be pulling a little more than 31"then because the arrows I have measure 31.25" to back of the swell on the outsert and the outsert gives another half inch clearance on that too keep broadhead from hitting my fingers. My VForce are a few years old, bummed to hear they aren't 32" long anymore, they are the only thing in .600 spine I've found for my Whistler that aren't too heavy

 

[oldgoat]

i shoot axis shafts with a 2.5" 2020 alloy footing on one setup and a 3.5" 2020 footing on another.

nigh on indestructible

Those 2020 footers fit perfect on .400 spine Gold TipKinetics too! Toughest arrow I've ever put together, didn't stand up to my moose falling on them last year though, lol!

 

[GreenNDark Timber]

I currently shoot Black Eagle Rampage with Iron Will SS insert and impact collars. Prior to that I shot the Easton Axis with aluminum footing like Clint. The Axis seem to be a slightly stronger shaft but I needed the GPI of the Rampage for tuning. The Iron Will impact collars are stronger than the aluminum footings I previously used, but should be for the cost. If tuning and final arrow weight worked out and I could pick a combo as the toughest it would be the Axis shaft w/ brass or SS insert and Iron Will Collar.

I haven't tried micro diameter shafts but if I did it would be with the Valkyrie system and probably BE X-impact shafts.

 

[TradLife406]

Ethics. Valkyrie is good but frickin expensive.

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[Trumpkin The Dwarf]

Never had any issues with Axis arrows and the standard brass HIT inserts.

 

[Beendare]

Its easy to get caught up in this arrow building and gear purchases. I'm as guilty as anyone on that....but hey, its my number one hobby......grin

Now, I've come to the realization that all that extra work and $$$ gets me very little in return.

I try not to lose sight of what important. If it doesn't contribute to better accuracy- it really is a waste for me.

I shoot the Axis with a longer heavy insert, epoxied.....and when those arrows are milled on my straightener [320 sandpaper]...that makes for a strong connection/bullet proof arrow in 98% of situations.

IME, if you shoot it into anything but a concrete wall--those^ Axis are solid.

Adding collars maybe gave me maybe a 1% improvement...but also had the downside of straightness issues, difficult pulling in some targets, longer arrow, etc- just not worth the extra effort to me. The first time I pulled that outsert arrow off the string drawing on a hog- I was done with collars. [Yep, honest admission EFF up there!]

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[bjfoxhoven]

Its easy to get caught up in this arrow building and gear purchases. I'm as guilty as anyone on that....but hey, its my number one hobby......grin

I shoot the Axis with a longer heavy insert, epoxied.....and when those arrows are milled on my straightener [320 sandpaper]...that makes for a strong connection/bullet proof arrow in 98% of situations.

IME, if you shoot it into anything but a concrete wall--those^ Axis are solid.
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I’m going back to axis for the next arrows for both trad and compound. Looking back I don’t remember breaking a single one (other than when it was in a deer). And that was all I shot until the last couple years. The black eagles I went to were amazing quality, consistency, strait, etc...but just broke too dang easy and we’re a little lighter than I want going forward.

 

[sneaky]

I wish I had bought a trailer load of the old Beman MFX classic wood grain shafts when they were available. Best .204 arrows I've ever shot for trad, high gpi and tunes really easy. I can't stand the Axis shafts compared to those MFX woodies. There's a definite difference in the carbon layup between them, and even the new Axis trads don't even compete.

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[Beendare]

I've shot both the MFX's and the Axis trad...and I also preferred the MFX...though I don't think there is that much of a difference.

Have you tried the Beman Centershot? Those are cheaper...by a long shot....and though 6mm they are the best $$ value I've found.....I'm moving to those in my recurve.

The best tip I can give is to mill the ends of all of these carbons on a jig. I posted this in the Archery section....but I found a big difference in not only getting and keeping BH's straight but also it makes the arrow more durable.



This is a cell phone pic of the LH arrow milled on 320 sandpaper and the RH one right off the saw. If you saw the ends under higher magnification you would be shocked how ragged that arrow off the saw really is- its terrible. Even if you use an insert that goes right to the end, that tight seating makes a difference IME.

I've had shop guys tell me, "I spin them" on the saw and they are fine. BS, look at the ends in a microscope and you will see how bad they really are.

 

[aggieland]

I just picked up a dozen of the Victory R.I.P TKO shafts in .300 spine they are the same build as the grizzly stik shafts I have that victory builds but less gpi. I think these are going to be extremely strong shafts. I also am going to be using the 100 grain HIT inserts and 25g collars from iron will. Then depending on tune etc using the 225 or 250 grain iron will broadheads. Should be a total arrow weight around 620-650 with at least 26% foc out of a 65# centaur longbow.
I am also "FOR FUN" setting up some shafts with the 625 grain bishop s7 head.. surprisingly enough when I shoot this current arrow I was playing with out of a 58 or 65# centaur both shot straight bare shaft.. that arrow is a vap 340 cut down to roughly 28" with a firenock outsert and the bishop 625 grain fieldtip. I will say when you shoot a new bag target inside with that big ass head it makes a serious boom.