Boat Novice...tiller jet for western rivers? Why so hard to find hull/jet/tiller combo?

[Jesse Jaymes]

My main desire is to both utilize the boat/jet for late season duck hunting, as well as summer fun and river fishing. What I THINK I want is an 1860ish boat with a tiller jet. What seems impossible to find is the aforementioned combo. Wanted to ask "Why"? Is my desire and way of thinking way off?

For "River" I am only guessing a flat bottom boat with a 60/40 or 95/65 max is not proper for running Hell's Canyon. Not looking to do that. But there is plenty of great fishing right out my door on non white water rivers. However the levels change and some places can get skinny.

I am enamored by guys jumping logs and sand bars. I wanna do that shit!!! But more realistically.....I know almost nothing about boats and rivers. I want the flat bottom and jet foot flush or in a tunnel...to keep my dumb ass out of trouble and running rather than loss of a prop or lower out in the tules with no way back. The only thing I really finding is maybe a SeaArk hull. And for sure there is nothing near me for a dealer to inquire are look at.

Anyone offer any insight?

 

[Marbles]

There are outboard jet conversions available. Jets put all the moving parts inside a housing, which helps protect them. However, as everything is inside a housing it is difficult to clear obstructions, such as rope, that get sucked in. With a prop you just lift the motor and cut it.

I don't have experience on western rivers, so this might not carry over, but on the White and Buffalo rivers everyone just uses props as with it half kicked out of the water you can get a flat bottomed boat through anything where the hull has enough draft. The those rivers tend to have deeper channels in them though. It is slow running the prop kicked half out of the water.

Go Devils are another option for really shallow water.

Jets sound more complicated in setting up properly. I have very limited experience with jet outboards, and that was on inflatable Zodiac boats in lake Okeechobee, so not even really applicable.

Boat Selection

outboardjets.com

 

[MTPipeliner]

In my area jets are relatively uncommon compared to props, but if you want to run the river that’s what you need here. They’re like a unicorn to find on the used market. A buddy of mine had to drive something like 1500 miles to find the boat he was looking for (big inboard jet).

are you seeing tiller jets on smaller boats? I’m a fan of tiller motors but it seems lots of people prefer steering wheels, especially on a boat as big as you’re talking about, it seems from 16’ and up that steering wheels become more common than tiller.

 

[Tmac]

There are plenty of jet boats in ID. Jumping logs and sand bars would not be my choice if running a tiller. For that I’d want an inboard or an outboard with a tunnel hull, no tiller, steering wheel or the like, and lots of experience. Too easy to knock a shoe off otherwise or launch yourself forward. I’ve yet to find a good place to fall in a boat or outside one under power. A light hulled tiller flat bottom can access plenty of water, but as you said, not big heavy water with bad rapids. If you watch you’ll see some like you seek come up for sale.

 

[Jimbob]

I'm guessing they are not as popular because it is harder to navigate and drive with a tiller.

 

[mod700]

Few things to remember or consider, a lot of the river runner hulls used in the N.W are heavy duty plate construction, designed to take abuse, a lighter gauge hull such as the sea-ark will not handle the same. a lot of guys down here use light hulls and are fine. The sea-ark hulls are well built, had 2 buddies with them, like the higher sides on them too.
You loose about 30% horsepower when you bolt on a jet, so be aware of that, my opinion a 1860 size would be a good choice for a dual purpose boat. A tiller leaves a lot of useable open space, which is nice. You should be able to find one used. I run a 20' willie predator w/ 250 Yamaha tiller, w/jet, love it.
Good luck with your search.
Mike

 

[AK Troutbum]

I'm guessing they are not as popular because it is harder to navigate and drive with a tiller.

Depends. In regards to outboard jets, tiller vs. steering wheel, tiller is much more responsive and makes it much easier to navigate tight rivers/creeks.

The combo that @mod700 has is bad ass IMO, and if I could justify the cost to own a Willie, I would...but I'd probably run a little less motor on it.

A few other really good hulls that I'd be looking into are; Motion Marine, Koffler, and Fishrite. All very well built hulls, then it's just a matter of what you want to power it with.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I prefer a tiller any day over a steering column, they are far more responsive for running creeks and small winding rivers and they are lighter and less complicated if you ever need to do a repair on one out in the middle of nowhere. I don't have much experience with tunnels but I believe Alweld makes flat bottoms with tunnels and I think the new woldridge alaskan LT has one.

I just have a low 1653 with a yamaha 40 jet, I can run super shallow and go pretty much anywhere. It's not great for crossing big lakes but you can't have it all in a boat.

 

[Tmac]

I'm guessing they are not as popular because it is harder to navigate and drive with a tiller.

Tillers are very responsive. Quite popular in OR. But you are standing up for visibility much of the time. I’ve run jets with tillers and steering wheels, both have their place. Actually with the right set up, a steering wheel is more responsive than any tiller I’ve seen, google the small racing jets. They are very agile.

 

[MTSasquatch]

In my area, most guys use outboard jets with a wheel, rather than a tiller. I use a Lowe roughneck 1860 tunnel jet, with a 115/80 merc. My buddy has an 18 ft with a tiller jet, but he’s trying to get out of the tiller and into a wheel. My other jet is an older 16 ft alweld with a 60hp Yamaha wheel. Keep in mind, smaller boat usually means drafting issues under load and smaller motor, which equals less gear, fewer people, fewer animals while still being able to get on step quickly, turn easily, and move as quickly and safely. I’d argue the wheel can be more responsive than a tiller. More parts though.

Some guys like to be at the back holding the stick. Others up font holding the wheel. I find up front is better for weight distribution and visibility for reading the river under power.

Jets have their own issues. Debris getting into the pump housing, rocks plugging cooling water inlet, weeds causing cavitation, ice build up on directional gate and remote cables. Carry tools necessary to fully disassemble and assemble the jet housing on the water because if you do it enough the time will come to do so, and it won’t be in the driveway lol!

 

[KChunter71]

Don't look past Woolridge for a tiller jet combo haul. He makes a hull with a lifetime warranty. Im eye balling one for my self. As Im planing to get a boat next year.

Alaskan LT – Wooldridge

 

[AK Troutbum]

Actually with the right set up, a steering wheel is more responsive than any tiller I’ve seen, google the small racing jets. They are very agile.

True, but I think you're referring to an IB vs. OB. Kind of apples to oranges. If you're strictly comparing with OB's, the lock to lock steering on an OB can be several complete rotations of the wheel, where as a tiller is just a quick push or pull.

 

[Tmac]

True, but I think you're referring to an IB vs. OB. Kind of apples to oranges. If you're strictly comparing with OB's, the lock to lock steering on an OB can be several complete rotations of the wheel, where as a tiller is just a quick push or pull.

I am. The IB’s with the quick turning nozzles turn so quick they can hurt you. It’s all a trade off. I‘ve taken both types, IB/OB, where angel’s fear to tread. That said, each can go where the other can’t in some cases.

To the OP, just don’t run before you can walk, jet boat speaking. There has been some real good advice given by others. They are fun capable boats, and once mastered, will do amazing things.

 

[KChunter71]

I am. The IB’s with the quick turning nozzles turn so quick they can hurt you. It’s all a trade off. I‘ve taken both types, IB/OB, where angel’s fear to tread. That said, each can go where the other can’t in some cases.

To the OP, just don’t run before you can walk, jet boat speaking. There has been some real good advice given by others. They are fun capable boats, and once mastered, will do amazing things.

Sounds fun!

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Don't look past Woolridge for a tiller jet combo haul. He makes a hull with a lifetime warranty. Im eye balling one for my self. As Im planing to get a boat next year.

Alaskan LT – Wooldridge

View attachment 237035

That’s what I’d get....if I wanted to spend 50k on a skiff.

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

Yikes!

Many thanks for the replies. Some of my comments were tongue in cheek...kinda. Would really be nice though to not worry terribly if I skipped over a sand bar or took a turn too close to a bar and ran out of water for 6 feet. That concept.

I troll Craigslist from Portland to Billings and down to the Salt Lake. Just don't see Set Ups like I am describing or seeking.

And the Camps divide quickly "Run a prop on a jack plate and be done with it"...."Run a Surface Drive Mud Buddy and be done with it"

I really get almost ZERO endorsements for a Jet. Hence the questions.

To the Dude with the Willie....I do know what that is. Waaaay outta my price range and scope. I am much more on the lower end of slumming a box store Lowe with some CL used Jet than that special.

 

[AK Troutbum]

I am. The IB’s with the quick turning nozzles turn so quick they can hurt you. It’s all a trade off. I‘ve taken both types, IB/OB, where angel’s fear to tread. That said, each can go where the other can’t in some cases.

That's what I meant about apples to oranges, comparing an IB to an OB wheel, there is no comparison. I had a 21' Sportjon with a 200hp Mercury Sportjet (IB), and that thing was like a sportscar on the water. Lock to lock was about 3/4 turn of the wheel, and there's no way an OB/steering wheel could handle anywhere near as well as that Sportjet.

To the OP, if you're looking at strictly an outboard, you're going to get a much, much better/faster response from a tiller steer than a steering wheel.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Yikes!

Many thanks for the replies. Some of my comments were tongue in cheek...kinda. Would really be nice though to not worry terribly if I skipped over a sand bar or took a turn too close to a bar and ran out of water for 6 feet. That concept.

I troll Craigslist from Portland to Billings and down to the Salt Lake. Just don't see Set Ups like I am describing or seeking.

And the Camps divide quickly "Run a prop on a jack plate and be done with it"...."Run a Surface Drive Mud Buddy and be done with it"

I really get almost ZERO endorsements for a Jet. Hence the questions.

To the Dude with the Willie....I do know what that is. Waaaay outta my price range and scope. I am much more on the lower end of slumming a box store Lowe with some CL used Jet than that special.

Nothing wrong with a Lowe, I like mine, it’s nothing special but it hauls moose and works good for fishing. You could step it up and get the roughneck version or a g3 or a sea ark if you wanted a bit better of a boat.

Again, take a look at alweld boats, they seem reasonably priced and good quality.

 

[tuffcity]

I am enamored by guys jumping logs and sand bars. I wanna do that shit!!!

My guess is you'd probably try that once and then switch to what the hell was I thinking... at least with a tiller steer. I haven't used a tiller steer on a jb but have run 18 footers with a 90 ob and wheel steering, also V8 24 footers with wheel steering. Both handle differently and have their pro's and con's usually based on river type.

Currently running a 22 ft Outlaw Muskwa with a 6 litre kodiak, a 212 Hamilton jet and full plastic bottom. Fuel consumption is not for the faint of heart but it packs a load. I'm intrigued with the bigger tiller boats and I think they would be great on flatter systems up here like the Yukon or Teslin Rivers but if I'm running stuff where the next corner could result in a hamilton turn, crash stop or full reverse 180 I'd prefer a wheel!

FWIW.

 

[Jimbob]

Depends. In regards to outboard jets, tiller vs. steering wheel, tiller is much more responsive and makes it much easier to navigate tight rivers/creeks.

The combo that @mod700 has is bad ass IMO, and if I could justify the cost to own a Willie, I would...but I'd probably run a little less motor on it.

A few other really good hulls that I'd be looking into are; Motion Marine, Koffler, and Fishrite. All very well built hulls, then it's just a matter of what you want to power it with.

Tillers are very responsive. Quite popular in OR. But you are standing up for visibility much of the time. I’ve run jets with tillers and steering wheels, both have their place. Actually with the right set up, a steering wheel is more responsive than any tiller I’ve seen, google the small racing jets. They are very agile.

I meant driving and navigating at the same time. I think being up near the front of the boat allows you to see rocks and such so you can choose where to go. That's what I meant by navigating.

I have not operated both types of boats though so it was just a guess.