BLM Blind rules for Idaho Archery Pronghorn

[packgoatguy]

The blm has a rule in Idaho; if you want to place a blind on BLM land, it cannot be placed more than 10 days prior to the hunt opener, and removed within 7 days of the end of the season. The blinds must be marked with the hunter/owner's name and zip code. Blinds are first come first serve, and any other hunter can use someone else's blinds (but if you talk to BLM LEO or IDFG, they both agree it's unethical to not let the owner of the blind use it if there is a conflict).

So, Archery antelope/pronghorn starts Aug 15th in most Idaho units. 10 days prior would be the 5th of August (any time after 12:01 AM August 5th).

So, why is it then, that as of the 4th of August (yesterday) every known waterhole (guzzlers for range cattle) I visited already has a plywood box blind on it (same exact blinds, in the same exact place as last year, etc), and why are none of the blinds marked as required? (At least 5 spots in this particular area, which covers an area about 4 miles by 7 miles Square).

We have rules so that we can all rely on a level playing field... ya, I get it, some seem stupid, and some rules are easy to get around... but that is not the point. Aren't we as hunters and conservationists better than that?

What should BLM or IDFG do to enforce this so that some guys aren't able to CHEAT to get an edge in a competitive environment?

 

[npm352]

Hunting Idaho archery pronghorn over water is the last remnant of the wild west. No one cares about rules or laws.

There will probably be two or three more blinds on those water holes before the opener.

I did the 12:01am 10 days before thing once on a fairly obscure guzzler. I set up a wooden blind and blacked it out and came back ten days later. I pulled up on the opener and then a guy rolls in with a pop-up next to me like I wasn't there expecting me to move.

We had words. He left. Sometimes fist fights happen. Many hunters are shitty humans.

 

[npm352]

An antelope blind on BLM land more than ten days before the opener is litter and litter should be removed by good citizens.

 

[rclouse79]

I love that hunt if you can get a spot, but it is definitely stressful. There was one year I thought I would be smart and sit on a water hole the evening of the 4th and set my blind up after midnight. Every fricking waterhole had a dude already camped out on it. I had one waterhole marked in a wilderness area you had to hike to. I walked in and some jack wagon already had his blind set up on the 4th with freaking four-wheeler tracks making a new path through the grass. In wilderness areas you are only allowed to set your blind up while you are there. I called it in to Fish and Game when I got home. The officer was nice, but basically said they were probably stretched too thin to enforce it. Makes me wish I just would have took their blind or cut a bunch of holes in it.

 

[steelheadmike]

It’s the same reason you see cattle tearing up the National Forest long after the grazing allotment period ends. It’s not a rule unless it’s enforced.


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[idelkslayer]

We have rules so that we can all rely on a level playing field... ya, I get it, some seem stupid, and some rules are easy to get around... but that is not the point. Aren't we as hunters and conservationists better than that?

What should BLM or IDFG do to enforce this so that some guys aren't able to CHEAT to get an edge in a competitive environment?

The sad fact of the matter is that the average hunter does not read rule books. They rely on word of mouth to get their information and they think "common sense" dictates that they can break any rule that is an inconvenience to them.

 

[wyodog]

Dang that really sucks. Honest people lose out time after time. At some point I’d get fed up and call the game warden, if he doesn’t do anything I might decide to early myself.

 

[BKIdaho]

My son was best friends with F&G CO Supervisor. Great guy. Definitely followed all actual and ethical rules on hunts. Hard worker. Nothing bad I can say about him.

That said over the years I would see lots of technical violations, particularly using Bikes, Quads, and SxS’s where they shouldn’t. Every call was basically ignored, even with pics, gps, and plates.

I think certain “frequent” violations are just too difficult to get prosecuted so they rarely go out of their way to address. If they’re out there, probably a stern conversation.

They said, my buddy had a buck stolen by a douche and man did that CO go above and beyond. I’m not blaming F&G, but it’s Uber frustrating and douches know nothing his and take advantage.

 

[bergie]

Hunting Idaho archery pronghorn over water is the last remnant of the wild west. No one cares about rules or laws.

Come up to North Idaho and check out our 'closed to motorized vehicle' roads. I assure you that assholes are everywhere that don't care about rules or laws.

 

[npm352]

Come up to North Idaho and check out our 'closed to motorized vehicle' roads. I assure you that assholes are everywhere that don't care about rules or laws.

Definitely. They are down here too.

It gets old.

 

[npm352]

My son was best friends with F&G CO Supervisor. Great guy. Definitely followed all actual and ethical rules on hunts. Hard worker. Nothing bad I can say about him.

That said over the years I would see lots of technical violations, particularly using Bikes, Quads, and SxS’s where they shouldn’t. Every call was basically ignored, even with pics, gps, and plates.

I think certain “frequent” violations are just too difficult to get prosecuted so they rarely go out of their way to address. If they’re out there, probably a stern conversation.

They said, my buddy had a buck stolen by a douche and man did that CO go above and beyond. I’m not blaming F&G, but it’s Uber frustrating and douches know nothing his and take advantage.

IDFG is definitely part of the problem and partially to blame if their law enforcers don't enforce laws.

It is completely unacceptable for them to ignore violations, especially things that people can show concrete proof with photos/license plates, etc.

If they aren't going to enforce laws, then COs shouldn't exist in Idaho.

 

[packgoatguy]

Well, part of the problem here is that there is no IDFG law about using blinds, treestands, etc. If you ask an IDFG officer, they will tell you that it's up to the BLM to enforce this particular rule.

But, in the future, IDFG Commissioners need to be petitioned to add a codified IDFG rule/law about this so that there can be a level playing field for everyone.

I'd also suggest pestering the commission and legislature to make an IDFG law that made it a game violation to break ANY state or federal law during hunting activities or in order to further hunting activities. The penalty needs to be a license revocation (because for many violators, paying a nominal fine won't change behavior... the only thing that will is to take away hunting or fishing privileges). Then, like the rewards for reporting poachers... give an incentive to the general public to report bad behavior, video the perpetrators, collect evidence, etc.

For example, I spent some time in several wilderness areas during spring bear this April and May, and after noting areas where it was obvious that chainsaws had been used to clear trails (a clear violation of the wilderness act) the response I got from the Forest Service personnel that I discussed the matter with was simply, they don't have the man-power to police it, and when they do happen to catch a violator, the penalty is a just a few hundred dollar fine... which the perpetrators clearly acknowledge is well worth their ability to clear the trail quickly... considering they may only have a week for a hunt that they have thousands of dollars invested in... and to lose even one day out of 7 to having to clear trails with hand saws would be far worse than getting caught using a chainsaw.

But I bet they would think twice about willfully breaking the forest service law if they knew that getting caught meant they could lose not only their right to hunt in Idaho, but also in any other state on the wildlife violator compact system.

 

[realunlucky]

Hunting Idaho archery pronghorn over water is the last remnant of the wild west. No one cares about rules or laws.

There will probably be two or three more blinds on those water holes before the opener.

I did the 12:01am 10 days before thing once on a fairly obscure guzzler. I set up a wooden blind and blacked it out and came back ten days later. I pulled up on the opener and then a guy rolls in with a pop-up next to me like I wasn't there expecting me to move.

We had words. He left. Sometimes fist fights happen. Many hunters are shitty humans.

I'm curious if the guy with the popup beats you to the water hole with your wooden shack you heading out to different location?

I find these situations super frustrating where someone has multiple blinds and me trying to decide who is where and what options that leaves me.

I've set my blind next to someone else's blind when they weren't in it, to me having a blind doesn't reserve it.

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[bergie]

Well, part of the problem here is that there is no IDFG law about using blinds, treestands, etc. If you ask an IDFG officer, they will tell you that it's up to the BLM to enforce this particular rule.

But, in the future, IDFG Commissioners need to be petitioned to add a codified IDFG rule/law about this so that there can be a level playing field for everyone.

I'd also suggest pestering the commission and legislature to make an IDFG law that made it a game violation to break ANY state or federal law during hunting activities or in order to further hunting activities. The penalty needs to be a license revocation (because for many violators, paying a nominal fine won't change behavior... the only thing that will is to take away hunting or fishing privileges). Then, like the rewards for reporting poachers... give an incentive to the general public to report bad behavior, video the perpetrators, collect evidence, etc.

For example, I spent some time in several wilderness areas during spring bear this April and May, and after noting areas where it was obvious that chainsaws had been used to clear trails (a clear violation of the wilderness act) the response I got from the Forest Service personnel that I discussed the matter with was simply, they don't have the man-power to police it, and when they do happen to catch a violator, the penalty is a just a few hundred dollar fine... which the perpetrators clearly acknowledge is well worth their ability to clear the trail quickly... considering they may only have a week for a hunt that they have thousands of dollars invested in... and to lose even one day out of 7 to having to clear trails with hand saws would be far worse than getting caught using a chainsaw.

But I bet they would think twice about willfully breaking the forest service law if they knew that getting caught meant they could lose not only their right to hunt in Idaho, but also in any other state on the wildlife violator compact system.

I agree with absolutely everything except one statement. Please please PLEASE only 'pester' the commission. We do not need the know-nothing legislators to be trying to be forcing the hands of the commission. Those morons introduce asinine bills every year that prove they know nothing about wildlife.

Write the commission, comment on all open proposal periods, respond to all surveys, talk to your local officers, listen in on working groups, attend local season setting meetings. There is a bunch of acceptable alternatives to trying to change game laws via legislature.

Here is a perfect example of the type of bill the legislature tries to force upon the commission.

Thread 'ID Bill S1340' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/id-bill-s1340.347494/

 

[packgoatguy]

I agree with absolutely everything except one statement. Please please PLEASE only 'pester' the commission. We do not need the know-nothing legislators to be trying to be forcing the hands of the commission. Those morons introduce asinine bills every year that prove they know nothing about wildlife.

Write the commission, comment on all open proposal periods, respond to all surveys, talk to your local officers, listen in on working groups, attend local season setting meetings. There is a bunch of acceptable alternatives to trying to change game laws via legislature.

Here is a perfect example of the type of bill the legislature tries to force upon the commission.

Thread 'ID Bill S1340' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/id-bill-s1340.347494/

Agreed.

The only issue is, ultimately anything IDFG wants to change or implement within Idaho Code, other than setting of seasons, has to be approved by the legislative body.

Rulemaking Process

Information about the rulemaking process for rules initiated by Idaho Fish and Game

idfg.idaho.gov

 

[bergie]

Agreed.

The only issue is, ultimately anything IDFG wants to change or implement within Idaho Code, other than setting of seasons, has to be approved by the legislative body.

Rulemaking Process

Information about the rulemaking process for rules initiated by Idaho Fish and Game

idfg.idaho.gov

Approval by legislature to a change that is initiated by the commission is not something that bothers me. It's when that process is flipped that is the problem.

It would be a lie to say I am not critical of some decisions of the commission, but I wholeheartedly believe they are MUCH more equipped to set/change game laws.

And to be honest we aren't even talking about changing any laws, we just want those laws to be actually enforced. I spot and stalk pronghorn so I have no dog in the ground blind fight, but I would love for them to actually enforce the road closures, so tomato, tomato.

 

[packgoatguy]

Approval by legislature to a change that is initiated by the commission is not something that bothers me. It's when that process is flipped that is the problem.

It would be a lie to say I am not critical of some decisions of the commission, but I wholeheartedly believe they are MUCH more equipped to set/change game laws.

And to be honest we aren't even talking about changing any laws, we just want those laws to be actually enforced. I spot and stalk pronghorn so I have no dog in the ground blind fight, but I would love for them to actually enforce the road closures, so tomato, tomato.

Can't say I agree more on your point about IDFG's being better equipped to initiate changes than the legislature.

However, at least pertaining to many rules or laws that are often violated (like road closures outside of units where the Motorized Hunting Rule applies) that are federal laws not state laws (like violations of wilderness area rules, or setting up blinds on BLM or Nat Forest, or entering federally closed burn areas, etc...) unless there is a specific IDFG law in title 36 Idaho Code, the IDFG has no authority to enforce. My only point is... there should be an IDFG law in title 36 that gives idfg the ability to issue violations for individuals who violated laws to cheat or get an edge while hunting, which would give them jurisdiction over anyone choosing to engage in the act of hunting.

 

[packgoatguy]

As I talk to BLM and IDFG folks about this and related issues... the answer keeps coming back to; "you need to present your concerns to the Commission". The advice I've been given is simple, we need to have as many voices at these Commission meetings as possible. In a recent conversation with a senior manager at IDFG, he said "20 guys at the Commission meeting all voicing the same concerns will have far more sway with the Commission than just one guy who is speaking on behalf of 20 other guys".

So, I plan to prepare a statement for the next IDFG Commission meeting. If anyone wants to join me, shoot me a PM. The more of us there, there more we can get done.