Blacktail antler growth thoughts?

[pnwsteelheader]

Pulled these off a cam in an area I’ll be hunting in late October. Captured on July 17th around 4100’ in Washington State.

Assuming average antler growth between then and whenever he shed velvet, he’s a deer I’d love to pull the trigger on. However. Looking at his nose through my inexperienced eyes, am I correct in thinking he’s still a year or two out from being a true “mature” buck? Nose seems thin still without having that Roman nose I’ve seen in pictures and videos. Certainly seen smaller racks in this drainage on more mature looking faces.

If he’s got another couple years of growth, I may hunt a different drainage with some other good bucks this fall and just let him grow.

 

[Rogue Bay]

I’ve given up trying to guess age based off body size/ shape and the face. My family and the group I hunt with have had all of our deer aged for many years now and it seems there’s no trait consistency. We’ve shot huge bodied, gray faced bucks that were 4.5; small, mousy faced basket rack bucks that were also 4.5; and we’ve shot very underwhelming forked horns that were 5.5. The bodies were equally variable.

I listened to a great podcast (Rokcast maybe?) regarding research being conducted by the University of Wyoming on mule deer and they discuss the Roman nose trait. Their research suggests it’s more genetic than age related. Very interesting podcast if you get a chance to listen to it.

The buck in your photos looks impressive to me! Given that most blacktail bucks don’t live past 6, I’d be hesitant to give him a pass. Never know if something or someone will put an end to him sooner rather than later. But, that’s just me. The area I hunt may be much different than where you are. Best of luck this season and please let us know how you do!

 

[pnwsteelheader]

I’ve given up trying to guess age based off body size/ shape and the face. My family and the group I hunt with have had all of our deer aged for many years now and it seems there’s no trait consistency. We’ve shot huge bodied, gray faced bucks that were 4.5; small, mousy faced basket rack bucks that were also 4.5; and we’ve shot very underwhelming forked horns that were 5.5. The bodies were equally variable.

I listened to a great podcast (Rokcast maybe?) regarding research being conducted by the University of Wyoming on mule deer and they discuss the Roman nose trait. Their research suggests it’s more genetic than age related. Very interesting podcast if you get a chance to listen to it.

The buck in your photos looks impressive to me! Given that most blacktail bucks don’t live past 6, I’d be hesitant to give him a pass. Never know if something or someone will put an end to him sooner rather than later. But, that’s just me. The area I hunt may be much different than where you are. Best of luck this season and please let us know how you do!

I’ll try to track that podcast episode down. Interesting to hear your anecdotal findings though.

Who knows if I’ll bump into him this fall, but it’d be nearly impossible for me to pass on him if the opportunity presented itself. If I don’t end up taking him, and get pictures next spring/summer I’ll be sure to update.

 

[Jtb.kfd]

I am the same as Rouge Bay, I have given up trying to guess age on deer and bear. Been way off too many times to have any confidence. As for your deers growth, I hunted blacktails on the west side for many years with lots of summer scouting trips. I don’t think your deer will add a lot of length/mass from July 17 until the velvet starts coming off. Blacktails seemed to have much slower growth or at least not the same as mule deer. What we would see in mid/late July would be pretty close to what we would get during season. I included a pic of my daughters first deer, it was taken at 6000’ but along the west side of the PCT, but clearly has mule deer genetics as well. The rack was dark and looked like a traditional blacktail. I would guess your deer would look similar to this one by Sept. One thing I did learn with blacktails (from the Olympic Peninsula) was they are super unpredictable. Meaning, we would find bachelor groups and watch certain deer for a month or more. Then once the velvet started coming off we never saw them again that year or subsequent years. That happened a lot so if this is a buck you like I personally wouldn’t wait for another year/growth as its more likely than not in my experience that you won’t find that one again.

 

[pnwsteelheader]

I am the same as Rouge Bay, I have given up trying to guess age on deer and bear. Been way off too many times to have any confidence. As for your deers growth, I hunted blacktails on the west side for many years with lots of summer scouting trips. I don’t think your deer will add a lot of length/mass from July 17 until the velvet starts coming off. Blacktails seemed to have much slower growth or at least not the same as mule deer. What we would see in mid/late July would be pretty close to what we would get during season. I included a pic of my daughters first deer, it was taken at 6000’ but along the west side of the PCT, but clearly has mule deer genetics as well. The rack was dark and looked like a traditional blacktail. I would guess your deer would look similar to this one by Sept. One thing I did learn with blacktails (from the Olympic Peninsula) was they are super unpredictable. Meaning, we would find bachelor groups and watch certain deer for a month or more. Then once the velvet started coming off we never saw them again that year or subsequent years. That happened a lot so if this is a buck you like I personally wouldn’t wait for another year/growth as its more likely than not in my experience that you won’t find that one again.

My experience is still in its infancy so I appreciate knowledge like you guys have shared. Thank you.

Will provide updates this fall if I end up seeing him in the timber.

 

[jpgold92]

My experience is still in its infancy so I appreciate knowledge like you guys have shared. Thank you.

Will provide updates this fall if I end up seeing him in the timber.

Second this! Still very new to big game and the amount of info here is awesome!

 

[NWBLKTAIL]

I’ve given up trying to guess age based off body size/ shape and the face. My family and the group I hunt with have had all of our deer aged for many years now and it seems there’s no trait consistency. We’ve shot huge bodied, gray faced bucks that were 4.5; small, mousy faced basket rack bucks that were also 4.5; and we’ve shot very underwhelming forked horns that were 5.5. The bodies were equally variable.

This has been my experience as well

 

[Ridgerunner]

The deer your daughter shot looks like a mule deer. What was the tail like? I know they crossover the crest quite a bit in Washington.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Jtb.kfd]

The deer your daughter shot looks like a mule deer. What was the tail like? I know they crossover the crest quite a bit in Washington.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tail was mule deer like. The body was very large, the rack was more blacktail like being dark brown with the structure. It certainly had prominent mule deer generics, but in WA it was legally a blacktail. That means nothing really though.

 

[Kauaihunter]

I took a 120 pound dressed buck back when the biologist that worked at the DLNR here manned the Check-in station during our deer season. He told me that he believed that it was the oldest buck that he’s ever seen and was estimating it to be 7+ years old. His live weight calc was 150 pounds and he thought the deer was getting past its prime and starting on the decline. He asked me if he could take out a tooth to confirm the age. He retired and I never got to ask him what he found out. I have definitely seen, at least here anyways, that age, body and antlers don’t necessarily correlate.

 

[bheck]

I’m no expert but I really don’t think blacktail blowup much in regards to antler growth like white tail or mule deer. The year to year changes aren’t as great with the exception of 1.5 to 2.5 year old, I feel by 2.5 you should get an idea of their general antler structure. An example is my biggest buck. For 3 years in a row he was roughly the same shape of rack, just a little more mass and wider. He regressed the third year due to some unknown reasoning. He was said to be 5.5 year old buck according to deerage . com.

This pic I had missed him during season so was able to take some photos through the spotter. He has a similar frame the year before just more narrow.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[roosiebull]

They are truly interesting creatures in many ways, here is a good example of a stunted rack 5.5yr old and the first time I experienced true ground shrinkage it was raining and foggy and blowing and I could tell he was a mature buck but the antlers that I thought I saw was slash behind him. I was so bummed, not because I think I deserved a big one, but I had over a week to hunt and I thought he was a good one

At least he had lots of steaks on him, but lesson learned that day

 

[Steve300xcw]

Some dead madrone/manzanita limbs will set a guy up

 

[longrangelead]

useless post alert...

I have zero age data for blacktails and won't even guess...

I simply go by "the look". You know a mature buck when you see one.
That may certainly be flawed thinking because some deer may be genetically disposed to look mousy with smaller antlers...dunno.

My opinion is Blacktails have the most diverse (and diluted?) gene pool of the deer species.
There is so much variation in their range from North to South they're arguably not the same deer.

Then you look at local genes where one valley or mountain produces bucks with certain traits.

Then the Cascade deer blur the boundary even more with possible mule deer DNA of varying degrees.

Ultimately I'd say don't pass on a good buck to let him grow, you may never see him again...

 

[blackveltbowhunter]

Maybe its just me, but judging determining <3.5 is relatively accurate across the board. After that it feels like a crapshoot, unless pretty intimate with very localized areas which can improve, but dont guarantee accuracy IME.

 

[riversidejeep]

useless post alert...

I have zero age data for blacktails and won't even guess...

I simply go by "the look". You know a mature buck when you see one.
That may certainly be flawed thinking because some deer may be genetically disposed to look mousy with smaller antlers...dunno.

My opinion is Blacktails have the most diverse (and diluted?) gene pool of the deer species.
There is so much variation in their range from North to South they're arguably not the same deer.

Then you look at local genes where one valley or mountain produces bucks with certain traits.

Then the Cascade deer blur the boundary even more with possible mule deer DNA of varying degrees.

Ultimately I'd say don't pass on a good buck to let him grow, you may never see him again...

The genetics of one area is easy to see, In the little area I hunt the bucks antlers are easily twice the size as the bucks around my house thats 20 miles away and are completely different from a area that's 10 miles away .

useless post alert...

I have zero age data for blacktails and won't even guess...

I simply go by "the look". You know a mature buck when you see one.
That may certainly be flawed thinking because some deer may be genetically disposed to look mousy with smaller antlers...dunno.

My opinion is Blacktails have the most diverse (and diluted?) gene pool of the deer species.
There is so much variation in their range from North to South they're arguably not the same deer.

Then you look at local genes where one valley or mountain produces bucks with certain traits.

Then the Cascade deer blur the boundary even more with possible mule deer DNA of varying degrees.

Ultimately I'd say don't pass on a good buck to let him grow, you may never see him again...

The genetics of one area is easy to see in the little area that I hunt. The buck antlers are easily twice the size of the box around my house that’s 20 miles away and are completely different from an area. That’s 10 miles away. I have hundreds of photos off a trail cameras of bucks in three different areas and it blows me away the difference in them. The attachments are were gotten within a mile of each other.

 

[roosiebull]

The genetics of one area is easy to see, In the little area I hunt the bucks antlers are easily twice the size as the bucks around my house thats 20 miles away and are completely different from a area that's 10 miles away .

The genetics of one area is easy to see in the little area that I hunt. The buck antlers are easily twice the size of the box around my house that’s 20 miles away and are completely different from an area. That’s 10 miles away. I have hundreds of photos off a trail cameras of bucks in three different areas and it blows me away the difference in them. The attachments are were gotten within a mile of each other.

Those are a couple awesome bucks!

I agree, I spend a lot of time in an area that almost exclusively grows 3 points, like out of all of the bucks I have seen all year, I can only recall one buck that was a 4x4, occasionally a 3x4, but never both sides

10 miles away and most mature bucks turn into 4x4’s, genetics in any blacktail zone don’t seem to change. A friends dad told me that the area we hunt a lot had never grown 4 points, so 50 years at least of that regional theme

Another thing is body size, the 3 biggest bodied bucks I’ve seen (by a significant amount) came from the same little zone, the smallest of the three was a 3.5yr old, which blew me away, because he was really heavy, the other 2 were 7.5yr olds