Blackhorn 209- Do not be like me

[CorbLand]

Yeah I had one the first season I used it which was 2018. That was in my T/C Encore. Didn't like that so switched to my CVA and got the Blackhorn specific breech plug. That worked great for two years. Then I had another hangfire just like what happened to me today when I was verifying zero on my CVA before season, in 2020. Got a brand new jug of Blackhorn and put probably 10 more rounds through it. Got rid of the old jug and called it good.

I initially got interested in trying it because of how it is advertised as being less hygroscopic than competitors. Funny, my triple seven went off just fine in September after three days of trekking around a rainy wilderness area of Colorado at 11 thousand feet...

Very interesting. Sounds like something with the gun. Seems weird you would have issues over different cans.

I am with you though, if it doesnt work for you, get rid of it. I will PM you my address to send your left over BH209 to.

 

[ENCORE]

I fired it once this year to confirm zero. Cleaned it and put it away, then loaded two days ago.

I still have to ask, DID YOU FIRE OFF A COUPLE PRIMERS ONLY ... PRIOR .... TO LOADING THE RIFLE?????

If.... you did not, then the hang fire was most likely caused by lubrication contamination. People clean and lubricate a barrel, then put the rifle in the safe, barrel up. Over a short period of time, gravity will allow lubricant to weep into the flash hole and channel. Honestly, its pretty common knowledge to fire at minimum 2 primers ONLY prior to loading.

I've shot thousands of rounds of BH yearly for decades, and currently along with all others, shoot it in competition to 1,000yds. The National Champions have been using BH exclusively since around 2015.

In no way am I implying that you didn't have a hang fire, but it was not solely related to the propellant. Prior to Western selling it to Hodgdon, Western was still testing LOT#1, and the propellant was as stable as day one.

 

[Harvey_NW]

3 pellets of Triple 7 or Pyrodex and a musket cap has never let me down, and I hunt Western slope of the Cascades where it's frequently wet. I switched back to Triple 7 for cleaning ease though. I've read enough articles about ignition issues with Blackhorn that I never felt the need to try it.

That sucks. Keep your chin up and be thankful it was a clean miss. Hope you get another chance at the buck.

 

[swavescatter]

I'm no expert on primers, but I would convert to a LRMP breech plug from arrowhead or similar. BH209 works great with those consistently, and I've heard of issues with even "Magnum" 209 primers.

Make the switch and get consistent ignition.

 

[elkivory]

I had almost the identical thing happen in my Omega back in early 2000's . Don't recall the exact year, but it cost me my only shot I ever took at an elk in Colorado. I was not using a magnum primer and primer went pop. Put another primer in and had delay fire like you described. I also had taken sight off elk before gun fired. I drove to Gunnison to get phone signal and called Western powder. Said use Federal 209A or CCI M primer. This year I killed my elk using BH209 and CCI 209A. Never had another failure after the one I described above, but I also don't hunt with muzzy. Since my bad experience with my one chance at an elk with Muzzy, all my hunting has been with a bow or rifle. I do plan to keep using BH209 and hunting elk with a Muzzy.
I would be curious what magnum primer you were using. Online I see lots of primers being used, but the 2 that I mentioned above are the only ones I've seen Western Powder recommend. Just curious.

 

[wind gypsy]

Huh. Looks like VA allows smokeless muzzleloaders, is that where you were hunting?

 

[rayporter]

Very interesting. Sounds like something with the gun. Seems weird you would have issues over different cans.

I am with you though, if it doesnt work for you, get rid of it. I will PM you my address to send your left over BH209 to.

split it with ya?

 

[Wrench]

Your story is not unique. I actually stepped back to swiss black powder and feel way more confident knowing it is harder to make bp not go off than ignite. I have to wire my #11 nipple every 15 shots or so...but it always goes bang.

 

[ElDiablito]

Sorry to hear it. I’ve shot thousands of Bh209 charges in numerous rifles with never so much as a delayed fire. I have complete faith in Bh209. Sounds like the CVA is your issue (and/or not popping primers prior to loading)…. (imagine my surprise)….

 

[LWH723]

That’s why you hunt on a fouled bore with bh209

 

[OXN939]

I will PM you my address to send your left over BH209 to.

Sure thing! These are all yours, various levels of full. Two ways we can work it. You can either pay for my HAZMAT shipping license and the shipping costs and they'll be headed your way. Or, if anyone is in SE VA, I'll be happy to meet up with you.

Your story is not unique.

Sure isn't. Wrong primer, misfire. Wrong breech plug, misfire. Wrong bullet, misfire. It's just finicky stuff. You'll notice the strong emotional reactions from the dudes on this thread going through their standard checklist of noob errors to insinuate that this was operator error somehow... that's them trying to avoid the discomfort of confronting their confirmation bias, as it would be unnerving to admit that this stuff can be inconsistent even for experienced blackpowder hunters. Wish them and everyone else the best of luck.

 

[ElDiablito]

You'll notice the strong emotional reactions from the dudes on this thread going through their standard checklist of noob errors to insinuate that this was operator error somehow... that's them trying to avoid the discomfort of confronting their confirmation bias, as it would be unnerving to admit that this stuff can be inconsistent even for experienced blackpowder hunters. Wish them and everyone else the best of luck.

Now that IS funny!! LMAO

 

[CorbLand]

Sure thing! These are all yours, various levels of full. Two ways we can work it. You can either pay for my HAZMAT shipping license and the shipping costs and they'll be headed your way. Or, if anyone is in SE VA, I'll be happy to meet up with you.





Sure isn't. Wrong primer, misfire. Wrong breech plug, misfire. Wrong bullet, misfire. It's just finicky stuff. You'll notice the strong emotional reactions from the dudes on this thread going through their standard checklist of noob errors to insinuate that this was operator error somehow... that's them trying to avoid the discomfort of confronting their confirmation bias, as it would be unnerving to admit that this stuff can be inconsistent even for experienced blackpowder hunters. Wish them and everyone else the best of luck.

I would pitch some money or send some bullets to someone that can meet up with you to get these, shoot them from their gun and see if it is the powder or the gun.

 

[rodney482]

I hunt w a fouled gun
Load and leave in the cold
Winchester 209s
90gr
Encore Endeavor
Clean gun and plug w bh209 cleaner.
Never had an issue

 

[roadrunner]

The only misfires I've experienced have been with CCI Magnums (unorthodox, I know). Have never had a misfire with Winchester or Fed 209A.

The only hang fires have been when the bullet wasn't seated all the way.

 

[Durran87]

There are a lot of variables with muzzleloaders. Is there really a powder out there that someone hasn’t had a failure with? A guy on Facebook just posted an identical story to yours and was using 777–and someone recommended BH209…

 

[iamthenick]

I still have to ask, DID YOU FIRE OFF A COUPLE PRIMERS ONLY ... PRIOR .... TO LOADING THE RIFLE?????

If.... you did not, then the hang fire was most likely caused by lubrication contamination. People clean and lubricate a barrel, then put the rifle in the safe, barrel up. Over a short period of time, gravity will allow lubricant to weep into the flash hole and channel. Honestly, its pretty common knowledge to fire at minimum 2 primers ONLY prior to loading.

I've shot thousands of rounds of BH yearly for decades, and currently along with all others, shoot it in competition to 1,000yds. The National Champions have been using BH exclusively since around 2015.

In no way am I implying that you didn't have a hang fire, but it was not solely related to the propellant. Prior to Western selling it to Hodgdon, Western was still testing LOT#1, and the propellant was as stable as day one.

Can you expand on this? Would that not dirty up the flash hole? Im newer to muzzleloading, never had any issues but want to avoid em for sure.

 

[ENCORE]

Can you expand on this? Would that not dirty up the flash hole? Im newer to muzzleloading, never had any issues but want to avoid em for sure.

What can happen is that after cleaning and lubrication, there is the possibility that some lubricant can leach down into the flash hole and flash channel.
One always wants to dry patch a clean barrel and remove ALL the lubricant possible. Once you patch it, then when firing a couple primers ONLY, you'll burn up/push out any lubricant which may be inside the flash channel or flash hole.
The primers are non-corrosive, so at this point one should have a completely clean of lubricant barrel and breech plug. The residue from firing the primers won't hurt at all.

Now............ when using BH, one needs to use full strength primers. NOT MUZZLELOADER PRIMERS. Actually the Federal 209A and/or CCI209M are the best magnum primers. There are other full strength primers, that work for many, but magnum primers have always been recommended by both Western and now Hodgdon.

The 209 primers will also carbon up the flash channel and has to be removed with a BY HAND drill bit. Just cleaning it doesn't remove the carbon. In most cases a 1/8" drill bit TURNED BY HAND will chip out the carbon. CVA uses a slightly different size, which at the moment I can't remember. Someone else may chime in on that.

 

[iamthenick]

One last question, i cleaned and prepped my gun last night, but worried i might have put a little too much grease on the plug threads. I plan on unloading and putting a few dry patches through and revisiting the inside of the plug as well.

Is there any harm in re-using a bullet that i had already seated in the gun? Its a hornady .45 cal in a .50 sabot.

Thanks

 

[ENCORE]

One last question, i cleaned and prepped my gun last night, but worried i might have put a little too much grease on the plug threads. I plan on unloading and putting a few dry patches through and revisiting the inside of the plug as well.

Is there any harm in re-using a bullet that i had already seated in the gun? Its a hornady .45 cal in a .50 sabot.

Thanks

Nope