Black bear shot placement

[Murtfree]

Having a difficult time understanding the difference between the middle and the middle of the middle?? Isn’t the middle of the middle, quite literally the middle?

Or is it just being more precise, like the difference between bullseye and center of the bullseye??

Sorry if this was covered, I read majority of posts but didn’t see a clear definition of ‘middle of middle’.

I’m with you on this! Sounds like double speak to me so if I’m missing something I’d really welcome an explanation.

Seems to me that maybe bear vitals aren’t actually farther back then on deer and other animals, but bear front legs are farther forward than on deer or elk. It appears that a bears front legs are at the very front of the body and on an ungulate the front legs are shifted slightly to the rear; there is chest area in front of the leg on a deer. Therefore the crease behind the front leg of a bear isn’t over the lung area like it is on a deer……just my opinion

 

[AndyB]

This might help.
(European Brown Bear though, and I've never shot a Bear)

 

[Jstumbaugh]

Thats a great pic that shows what was mentioned above with the shoulder being farther forward on the bear frame.

 

[lang]

PLEASE don't post diagrams, photo shopped vitals etc...We hunt lots of bears and have lost several that these diagrams show would have been perfect shots. They are very deceiving. Save yourself a nightmare hunt and aim back from the shoulder.

5 Tips for Shot Placement on Bear

After all the work of getting within shooting distance of a big bear this spring, you’ll need confidence in your ability to make a great shot. Bears are big, tough animals that are unforgiving when hit bad. Many new bear hunters carry with them shot placement and strategy derived from experience...

www.bear-hunting.com

Shared this same link above, but afraid with all new posts hope it helps save a lost animal! The diagram above would put bear-hunting's shot placement at the back edge of the lungs if in lungs at all! These diagrams are not anatomically correct!

 

[Theringworm]

Here is the carcass of my fall black bear. If you take the two red dots as being just inside the legs then the red hashed line transecting the body is the “MIDDLE” of the bears body. Now take the middle of the bears body from left to right (the red dashed line) and the middle of the body from top to bottom. Where they both transect is the far left blue X. Now take that left blue X and put a blue X to the right behind the bears front shoulder and now split the difference, the YELLOW CIRCLE (aka my bullet entrance). That’s is MY interpretation of the “Middle of the Middle” (middle of the body further divide by the half way point from the middle of the body to the shoulder crease). This placement pit my bullet straight through both longs and dead center on the heart. Hope this helps.

 

[AndyB]

PLEASE don't post diagrams, photo shopped vitals etc...We hunt lots of bears and have lost several that these diagrams show would have been perfect shots. They are very deceiving. Save yourself a nightmare hunt and aim back from the shoulder.

5 Tips for Shot Placement on Bear

After all the work of getting within shooting distance of a big bear this spring, you’ll need confidence in your ability to make a great shot. Bears are big, tough animals that are unforgiving when hit bad. Many new bear hunters carry with them shot placement and strategy derived from experience...

www.bear-hunting.com

Shared this same link above, but afraid with all new posts hope it helps save a lost animal! The diagram above would put bear-hunting's shot placement at the back edge of the lungs if in lungs at all! These diagrams are not anatomically correct!

Hi Lang,
I don't doubt your experience but if you are referring to the two images i posted they are ‘not’ photoshopped.

They are pics of a dissection taken layer by layer through a carcass by Dr Bengt O Roken.
Here is a link to some of his other work for reference.

Caribou Anatomy

They may look a little grainy as i took the pics with my phone from my laptop screen, cant post them from the powerpoint as my subscription is out.

 

[lang]

Thanks for the clarification AndyB, that is cool he is willing to do that. I work in Radiology and would love if I could image a bear. Just haven't figured out how to sneak one in yet . I just know what I have seen. My experience has shown that multiple bears hit right where ringworms front red dot is (perfect shot for ungulates) has not ended well with multiple bears. Using your dissection that red dot should center punch the front third of the lungs...I can't imagine a big difference between a European brown and american black bears? My groups experience in 20+ years of bear hunting has made us extremely critical of hugging that shoulder! Since aiming back exactly like ringworms yellow dot I haven't had a bear go 30 yards with archery gear.

 

[mackparrish]

Having a difficult time understanding the difference between the middle and the middle of the middle?? Isn’t the middle of the middle, quite literally the middle?

Or is it just being more precise, like the difference between bullseye and center of the bullseye??

Sorry if this was covered, I read majority of posts but didn’t see a clear definition of ‘middle of middle’.

Check out the latest episode of the Backcountry Hunting Podcast titled “how to shoot bears…” Joseph Von Benedikt interviews Tyler Freel and they go over the interpretations of “middle of the middle”.

Somewhere in there Tyler admits to shooting a couple dumptruck loads worth of black bears in Alaska; both archery and rifle, Bait and spot and stalk. He’s probably a safe source.

 

[mackparrish]

Here is the carcass of my fall black bear. If you take the two red dots as being just inside the legs then the red hashed line transecting the body is the “MIDDLE” of the bears body. Now take the middle of the bears body from left to right (the red dashed line) and the middle of the body from top to bottom. Where they both transect is the far left blue X. Now take that left blue X and put a blue X to the right behind the bears front shoulder and now split the difference, the YELLOW CIRCLE (aka my bullet entrance). That’s is MY interpretation of the “Middle of the Middle” (middle of the body further divide by the half way point from the middle of the body to the shoulder crease). This placement pit my bullet straight through both longs and dead center on the heart. Hope this helps.View attachment 399174

Thanks for the carcass pic! More helpful than reading 4 pages of other comments

 

[black dawg]

It was explained to me by a guide of many years as middle of head to tail and middle top to bottom of chest cavity.

We just aim back from the shoulder...where the yellow circle is. Shot one where the little red circle is (dead center shoulder) and got to deal with a mad bear with two broken shoulders. Broke both shoulders but had little damage to vitals from that shot. 5 shots later all within about 15 yards with the last one in the back of his head as he crawled away from me because he couldnt get on the rock that i had climbed on (with no front legs). "breaking them down" sure didnt seem to work.

 

[AndyB]

Thanks for the clarification AndyB, that is cool he is willing to do that. I work in Radiology and would love if I could image a bear. Just haven't figured out how to sneak one in yet . I just know what I have seen. My experience has shown that multiple bears hit right where ringworms front red dot is (perfect shot for ungulates) has not ended well with multiple bears. Using your dissection that red dot should center punch the front third of the lungs...I can't imagine a big difference between a European brown and american black bears? My groups experience in 20+ years of bear hunting has made us extremely critical of hugging that shoulder! Since aiming back exactly like ringworms yellow dot I haven't had a bear go 30 yards with archery gear.

Yes, agree. Ringworms yellow circle looks like it is more or less centre of the lungs on the dissection.

I will be carrying a black bear tag while Elk hunting this year, so watching this thread, .

 

[Wyobohunter]

There is an episode on the Backcountry Hunting podcast with Joseph Von Benedikt (sp?) that just released. The title is “how to shoot bears”.

 

[Blockcaver]

Some good information in the later posts. More potential issues with trying to “break them down” than just shooting them back in the lungs and having them down in a few seconds.

The front of the bear’s chest tapers down in a triangular fashion and gets very small.

I just bow hunt them and usually take one or two a year. Buddies arrow them too. Don’t shoot them too close to the shoulder. And mechanicals work very well in our experience for blacks, grizzlies and even the one polar bear I arrowed.

Season is on but it is too early where I like to hunt them.

Good luck!

 

[pk_]

Some good information in the later posts. More potential issues with trying to “break them down” than just shooting them back in the lungs and having them down in a few seconds.

The front of the bear’s chest tapers down in a triangular fashion and gets very small.

I just bow hunt them and usually take one or two a year. Buddies arrow them too. Don’t shoot them too close to the shoulder. And mechanicals work very well in our experience for blacks, grizzlies and even the one polar bear I arrowed.

Season is on but it is too early where I like to hunt them.

Good luck!

Seriously, after looking at the great carcass shot placement pic that @Theringworm posted, that is exactly where I would subconsciously put my pin/crosshairs. But all this middle of middle talk would have made me consciously shoot a little further back…

Glad I asked. Thanks for the replies.