Berger Hybrids Hunter-Anybody have experience shooting Berger Hybrid Hunter for elk.

[WeiserBucks]

I've taken a pile of elk with 180 7mm and 215 30 cal Berger Hybrids. All kinds of ranges and angles, great killing bullets. At this point they're all I use and I've tried almost everything available.

 

[Flyjunky]

I've taken a pile of elk with 180 7mm and 215 30 cal Berger Hybrids. All kinds of ranges and angles, great killing bullets. At this point they're all I use and I've tried almost everything available.

same here, the track record for the 215 on elk is undeniable. Absolutely lethal and anyone who says different either hasn't used the bullet or is just blowing smoke.

 

[Zappaman]

same here, the track record for the 215 on elk is undeniable. Absolutely lethal and anyone who says different either hasn't used the bullet or is just blowing smoke.

Or... we've used it (and several others) and decided on the bullet we like most Not starting an argument, but saying to each their own.

In my case, Partition or TSX leaves less meat damage than frangible bullets do. But I'll agree 100% that it has to be accurate out to the distance you use it. The Bergers certainly seem to fit that requirement without question... they seem to be one of the very best of class for what they are (and do).

 

[Slick8]

I've killed 1 cow elk with the 215 at 200 yards. No pass through and the bullet recovered on under the skin weighed 51 grains.

With the 230 I've killed 1 cow at 320, 1 red hind at 180, 1 at 605 and 1 bull elk at 550 and a bunch of deer and hogs from 100-620.

None of the elk were pass throughs, the red hind and wt which are on the light side were all pass throughs.

I love the bullet for its accuracy and lethality. It's been beyond well documented by the Broz and a few others.

I'm still undecided on going back with the 230 or a high bc copper solid like the hammer or bulldozer. I actually ordered a box of 195 dozers to run a ladder with this spring.

I know even a copper solid doesn't guarantee a pass through on elk as they have thick and imo very elastic skin, particularly the bulls.

I also saw more trimming required on the bull due to fragments in the off side shoulder.

I'm leaning on trying out the dozers next season but it's so hard to put the bergers down.

Here's the remins of the 230 from last year's bull. It was shot at 550 yards with a muzzle velocity of 3000 and an estimated impact velocity if 2500. It weighs 53 grains and was found just under the skin on the off side shoulder.

Additionally, both the 215 and 230 maxed out at 3050 and settled in at 2975-3000 for best accuracy in my 30 nosler. That's with H1k and maxing out case capacity prior to pressure signs.

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[QuackAttack]

Unbonded cup and core is 1920s tech.


Why use that when bonded and mono bullets exist?

 

[WRO]

Thanks for sharing that information, what were the distances?

Between 50 yards - 789 yards.. 8 bulls, 6 cows, and a couple bears.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Nice pic of the unfired bullet bullet, fragment of a jacket and ivories. I gather broadside on the shot?

 

[LongWayAround]

I've seen two large bull elk shot with those bullets.

This fall a buddy put three of them into a bull at 500yd with a 300 win mag. I found one small piece of the base of one projectile.

Last fall another buddy put two into a bull inside of 200yd. I don't recall recovering anything. I believe the gun was a 30 nosler.

I'm not sure what either bullet weight was. One bull took a round to the spine and was followed with two shots. The other, shot offhand made a little ground before a second shot stopped him.

 

[hflier]

My big bodied Mule Deer in CO this year. Dropped at 250 yards. 7 SAUM 168gr. VLD. Damage was impressive. One hell of an exit wound, major blood, but he didn’t take one step after I shot him.

Ron


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[WeiserBucks]

Unbonded cup and core is 1920s tech.


Why use that when bonded and mono bullets exist?

Why use bonded and mono bullets when Berger exists? That's the real question.

 

[CC11]

Why use bonded and mono bullets when Berger exists? That's the real question.

I agree with you on that on. I only shoot Bergers out of my guns, seen them knock too many animals over

 

[35WhelenAI]

Why use bonded and mono bullets when Berger exists? That's the real question.

Pics or it didn't happen, here's an answer to the question for my hunting.

First pic is a 200 gr Original X (35 Whelen AI) @2850 fps mv, and unfired from a quartering on shot on a cow elk at 242 yds. Saw the lump under the hide on the back of the rear quarter as we started to field dress. Lungs tattered and in chunks. Expanded diameter .748". 200 gr recovered weight.



Second pic is a 250 gr Original X @2575 fps mv, same gun and unfired from a quartering away shot on a cow elk from 60 yds behind the ribs, found in the off-side neck meat upon field dressing. Lungs destroyed into tattered chunks. Expanded diameter .746", 250 gr. recovered weight.



Haven't had an elk or deer catch an X, TSX or TTSX on anything resembling a broadside shot.

Can't make a claim to how a Berger would do on those shot angles, however I am confident from experience that the mono's will do the job from, well, any angle at the ranges I shoot.

These aren't long range bullets nor is it a long range cartridge, the longest shot was at 341 yds broadside, it exited, with the same 200 gr. original X.

The past 10 seasons or so I have been using the 200 gr TTSX @2925 fps mv and 6 elk and two mule deer bucks have succumbed with even more damage based on their quicker opening vs the original X, but they all die just as quick.

Good on you all with the Bergers, dead animals are the goal. I just have a good track record with the Barnes.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Pics or it didn't happen?

I don't have any pictures of recovered Bergers because I've never recovered one. 90+% of the time I get a pass through with a hellacious amount of internal damage a 2'' exit hole. The ones that don't exit are not worth my time to go fishing around in lung soup to find. In 2020 I witnessed a friend take a bull at 1282 yards with a Berger and dropped him stone dead, shot through both shoulders and quarter sized exit hole.

 

[Slick8]

Nice pic of the unfired bullet bullet, fragment of a jacket and ivories. I gather broadside on the shot?

Yes that was broadside at 550.

Unlike most I rarely get a pass through with bergers except for the deer I've shot with the 230s. Shot deer with 6, 6.5 and 7mm bergers from 100-450 and never a pass through but massive internal damage and usually a fragmented jacket like pictured above.

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[WeiserBucks]

Yes that was broadside at 550.

Unlike most I rarely get a pass through with bergers except for the deer I've shot with the 230s. Shot deer with 6, 6.5 and 7mm bergers from 100-450 and never a pass through but massive internal damage and usually a fragmented jacket like pictured above.

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230's at 3100 are pretty rough on deer, but I love them.

 

[35WhelenAI]

Pics or it didn't happen?

I don't have any pictures of recovered Bergers because I've never recovered one. 90+% of the time I get a pass through with a hellacious amount of internal damage a 2'' exit hole. The ones that don't exit are not worth my time to go fishing around in lung soup to find. In 2020 I witnessed a friend take a bull at 1282 yards with a Berger and dropped him stone dead, shot through both shoulders and quarter sized exit hole.

"Pics or it didn't happen", I said with much humor on my part. Of course stories are good based on their words but pics are always nice to share in my opinion.

The OP said he's not going to shoot past 350 yds. He doesn't care and I don't care about a 3/4 or a half mile shot. I'm suggesting what will work better under all circumstances from my experience, based on his parameters, not anybody else's.

 

[QuackAttack]

Why use bonded and mono bullets when Berger exists? That's the real question.

Because the hunting community spent 150+ years dealing with inconsistent terminal ballistic performance, resulting in wounded animals, lost game a dead hunters of dangerous game.


This has all been done before…there are defined standards for internal, external, and terminal ballistics. That last one is the most critical…and cup/core bullets are garbage at it outside ideal circumstances.


Look at why bullets like the Nosler Partition were invented prior to bonding technology. Look at why so many African animals get shot by solids.

DOD just spent billions reinventing the wheel with M855A1 and came to the same conclusions on terminal ballistics that everyone already knew- You need barrier blind straight line penetration of xyz inches, creating an entrance and exit wound that will depressurise the cardiovascular system and lead to lung/heart failure.

Cup and Core bullets shatter…you can’t count on consistent straight line penetration and exit wounds. You lose them to barriers like heavy bone or angled shots requiring deep penetration.

In today’s world, there is no reason for a bullet to lose more than 10% of its weight…none.

Using a cup and core bullet is intentionally handicapping yourself. It’s just illogical.

 

[35WhelenAI]

QuackAttack, appreciate your insight and logic. I've been there for 25+ years. Different strokes for different folks, eh?

 

[QuackAttack]

Cup and core bullets have killed a ton of animals and they are deadly under good circumstances. The Remington Core Lock is the best known version and I used it for years. It kills and on light game, I would still gladly use it.

I just think it’s funny when companies market something as new and high tech…when it’s actually old and outdated.

End of the day, it won’t matter if you are shooting a broadside animal in the right place. Many years ago, I knew an old man that killed a dozen or so deer and several black bears every year…with a 22lr. He shot them in the ear. I thought he was making it up until I saw it in person. He passed away years ago, but I never forgot it. He lived in the woods and subsistence hunted.

It all works if you hit them in the right spot.

 

[Super tag]

My experience with Berger bullets says they work just fine, I’ve taken many deer and elk, close range, longe range and inbetween, i have never has a single issue, never.