Berger Elite Hunter 205 grain?

[dmossu]

The 205 actually has a longer bearing surface than the 215. For a starting point you could use 215 data and just work up a bit higher.

Keep in mind that generic WM data isn't worth much because there is a huge variance in case capacity between the various brass manufacturers and lots. My current WM barrel is pushing 215s to 3k FPS in Nosler brass with an h1000 charge weight that was 80 FPS slower in Norma brass with the previous barrel.

Berger's load data in particular has been pretty lousy for me. I start loads above their max in 6.5x47 and my 300 NM was in pressure at their starting loads. Both with the same brass as listed in the manual.

Interesting analysis on the Norma Brass. I have been developing a load for my .300WM with some Berger 215's and Norma brass and am not getting near the velocity I would expect from my rifle. Because of this, I am afraid the bullet will not stabilize (on the edge when using Berger's stability calculator). Is it comment that Norma brass can produce slower speeds? If so, I will buy some Lapua brass and try that out.

Not the 205's but 208's in my Bergara like 7828ssc. 5 shots cold bore and three to verify at zero. .045 jump.

Do you plan on hunting with those 208's? I bought some awhile back because it is impossible to find 215's, but I am skeptical to hunt on them until more people have experience with the results.

 

[BigPrince]

I tried them in my 300wm, but my gun just didn't like them as much as 215's.

Had the same experience. Thinking of using them in a 300wsm if I can ever get all the components to build it.

 

[Kimber7man]

Forgot I had some backordered and 500 appeared on my doorstep this week. Going to try them in a 20” 300 WSM. Using 1x fired Norma brass and Fed 215M or maybe 210M. R23 to start with.

 

[BigPrince]

Forgot I had some backordered and 500 appeared on my doorstep this week. Going to try them in a 20” 300 WSM. Using 1x fired Norma brass and Fed 215M or maybe 210M. R23 to start with.

What twist you running? Interested to hear results.

 

[Kimber7man]

What twist you running? Interested to hear results.

Have to look, I bought the rifle used but it’s a Bartlein barrel GAP build. I think it’s 10 twist. On Defiance Rebel XM length action.

 

[wind gypsy]

Interesting analysis on the Norma Brass. I have been developing a load for my .300WM with some Berger 215's and Norma brass and am not getting near the velocity I would expect from my rifle. Because of this, I am afraid the bullet will not stabilize (on the edge when using Berger's stability calculator). Is it comment that Norma brass can produce slower speeds? If so, I will buy some Lapua brass and try that out.

Norma has roughly 95 grains h2o capacity, lapua is around 92 IIRC. So if you put the same powder charge in both, lapua will have higher chamber pressures and thus higher velocities. If you added powder to the load in Norma brass until it equaled the chamber pressure of the load in lapua brass, you would have a higher velocity with Norma.

It’s easier to get higher pressure/velocity by adding powder than it is buying new brass with a lower case capacity.

 

[Tberg]

Do you plan on hunting with those 208's? I bought some awhile back because it is impossible to find 215's, but I am skeptical to hunt on them until more people have experience with the results.

No, I do not intend to hunt with the 208 lrht. Mostly because the rifle is a tank and I don't want to lug it around on a hunt. But they have proven excellent for long range plinking. I'm looking for more if you decide to sell what you have.

 

[Novahunter]

First time taking the 300 RUM out with the 205 Berger today. Simply went out with a 14 shot ladder worked up in .5 gr increments to find pressure signs. All rounds fired over a Magneto Speed Sporter.

Gun is:
Rem 700 LA, blue printed and trued by W.A.R Rifles in Manassas VA
Orginal trigger (old type rem trigger) they worked over is now very smooth and crisp
Krieger barrel: 26in #5 heavy sporter profile, 1:10 twist,
Chambered in 300 RUM by WAR Rifles
Area 419 break
Magpul Hunter stock

Conditions : Cold, low 40's, and dry in Northern VA.

Load data:
Norma virgin brass
205gr elite hunter
Federal 215M primers
Retumbo powder - ladder starting at 88gr and going to 94.5gr. 14 rounds total in 0.5gr increments
OAL 3.600

Results:

Powder charge	FPS	Notes
88	2965	No Pressure signs
88.5	2971	No Pressure signs
89	3017	No Pressure signs
89.5	3035	No Pressure signs
90	3042	No Pressure signs
90.5	3068	No Pressure signs
91	3066	No Pressure signs
91.5	3136	No Pressure signs
92	3122	Slight ejector swipe
92.5	3159	More noticeable ejector swipe, slightly heavy bolt lift
93	3179	clear ejector swipe, heavy bolt lift
93.5	3191	ejector swipe, heavy bolt lift
94	0	Did not shoot
94.5	0	Did not shoot

Shots were into a berm at 30 yards, so no accuracy testing this session.

The jump in velocity from 91.0 to 91.5 was interesting to me. The recoil, report and bolt lift all discernablly changed when I hit 92gr charge. I decided to stop after shooting 93.5gr. This is going to primarly be a hunting rifle, and I am planning on it being my primary on a moose hunt to Newfoundland this fall. I want a load that can be shot in bad weather and not experience crazy pressure swings.

From this data, I am considering loading up 25 rounds each of 89.7 & 90.7, and shooting these batches to see which give the best ES/SD, and then confirming groups are what I expect (0.5MOA or better).

If the 90.7 load proves stable and consistent around 3075 to 3100fps, we might have a winner.

Only have about 60 rounds down the barrel, so it could pick up some speed still too.

More to come.

 

[406Backwoods]

Any more data? I’m waiting to hear from Berger and my brass is scheduled to arrive Friday. I’m hoping to get some info soon so I can throw together a ladder test Friday night

 

[JM151]

I was slightly disappointed with the Berger 205s in my rifle. I did a ladder test with RL26 and stopped at 3148 with heavy bolt lift. My accuracy node was around 2960 which was disappointing cuz you get that with a Berger 215. Another thing to consider is the longer bearing surface on the 205, which will create more friction slowing your bullet down.

 

[406Backwoods]

I was slightly disappointed with the Berger 205s in my rifle. I did a ladder test with RL26 and stopped at 3148 with heavy bolt lift. My accuracy node was around 2960 which was disappointing cuz you get that with a Berger 215. Another thing to consider is the longer bearing surface on the 205, which will create more friction slowing your bullet down.

Cartridge and powder charge? I hear ya there. I gave up chasing top speed a bit ago. I just want 2,900+ with great consistency

 

[JM151]

Cartridge and powder charge? I hear ya there. I gave up chasing top speed a bit ago. I just want 2,900+ with great consistency

It was with a 300wm 24” barrel and 75.5 grains of RL26.

 

[406Backwoods]

It was with a 300wm 24” barrel and 75.5 grains of RL26.

So that was your accuracy load? And what brass was that with?

 

[JM151]

So that was your accuracy load? And what brass was that with?

Yeah that was my accuracy load. With 78.5 it was going 3148 but with a hard bolt lift. Brass is Peterson.

 

[406Backwoods]

Yeah that was my accuracy load. With 78.5 it was going 3148 but with a hard bolt lift. Brass is Peterson.

Awesome. I got some Peterson long brass arriving Friday. I wanna see if I can get 2,900 fps with H4831 and be well under pressure. If not, I’ll work up with RL26 and see what happens. You sir are a godsend. There is so little data for these bullets in a win mag

 

[JM151]

Awesome. I got some Peterson long brass arriving Friday. I wanna see if I can get 2,900 fps with H4831 and be well under pressure. If not, I’ll work up with RL26 and see what happens. You sir are a godsend. There is so little data for these bullets in a win mag

No problem. I also tried N570 and H1k. I can look for my data if you need those. Just a warning man I took my loads with RL26 farther then most people do when finding pressure. I like pushing my rifle to the max and see what it’s capable of which is why I don’t stop at ejector marks or swip.

 

[406Backwoods]

No problem. I also tried N570 and H1k. I can look for my data if you need those. Just a warning man I took my loads with RL26 farther then most people do when finding pressure. I like pushing my rifle to the max and see what it’s capable of which is why I don’t stop at ejector marks or swip.

Nah. I wasn’t fond of H1000 and N570 is mythical at best these days. I won’t be pushing mine near that hard. Figured I’d start a few grains under your accuracy load and work up. I stopped chasing speed a little while ago

 

[406Backwoods]

Figured I’d add my findings here after my ladder test yesterday. Brass is virgin Peterson long 300 win mag, Fed 215 GMM, and H4831 SC. CBTO was 2.875 with a .015” jump.Velocity was as follows
69 gr - 2,822
69.5 - 2,855
70 - 2,871
70.5 - 2,878
71 - 2,919
71.5 - 2,934
72 - 2,960
72.5 - 2,962
73 - 2,981
73.5 - 3,021
74 - 3,051
Obviously use this data at your own risk. Work up in your rifle

 

[Moaflat]

First time taking the 300 RUM out with the 205 Berger today. Simply went out with a 14 shot ladder worked up in .5 gr increments to find pressure signs. All rounds fired over a Magneto Speed Sporter.

Gun is:
Rem 700 LA, blue printed and trued by W.A.R Rifles in Manassas VA
Orginal trigger (old type rem trigger) they worked over is now very smooth and crisp
Krieger barrel: 26in #5 heavy sporter profile, 1:10 twist,
Chambered in 300 RUM by WAR Rifles
Area 419 break
Magpul Hunter stock

Conditions : Cold, low 40's, and dry in Northern VA.

Load data:
Norma virgin brass
205gr elite hunter
Federal 215M primers
Retumbo powder - ladder starting at 88gr and going to 94.5gr. 14 rounds total in 0.5gr increments
OAL 3.600

Results:

Powder charge	FPS	Notes
88	2965	No Pressure signs
88.5	2971	No Pressure signs
89	3017	No Pressure signs
89.5	3035	No Pressure signs
90	3042	No Pressure signs
90.5	3068	No Pressure signs
91	3066	No Pressure signs
91.5	3136	No Pressure signs
92	3122	Slight ejector swipe
92.5	3159	More noticeable ejector swipe, slightly heavy bolt lift
93	3179	clear ejector swipe, heavy bolt lift
93.5	3191	ejector swipe, heavy bolt lift
94	0	Did not shoot
94.5	0	Did not shoot

Shots were into a berm at 30 yards, so no accuracy testing this session.

The jump in velocity from 91.0 to 91.5 was interesting to me. The recoil, report and bolt lift all discernablly changed when I hit 92gr charge. I decided to stop after shooting 93.5gr. This is going to primarly be a hunting rifle, and I am planning on it being my primary on a moose hunt to Newfoundland this fall. I want a load that can be shot in bad weather and not experience crazy pressure swings.

From this data, I am considering loading up 25 rounds each of 89.7 & 90.7, and shooting these batches to see which give the best ES/SD, and then confirming groups are what I expect (0.5MOA or better).

If the 90.7 load proves stable and consistent around 3075 to 3100fps, we might have a winner.

Only have about 60 rounds down the barrel, so it could pick up some speed still too.

More to come.

What did you finish with? Groups/SD?