Bear Gun

[LeftOverChicken]

Hey all, I do a fair bit of hiking, fishing and scouting in grizz country. I currently have a 12 gauge Mossberg Maverick 88 that I carry with me, loaded with slugs, in case I happen across a grizzly that decides it wants to eat me. I’m thinking about replacing it with a Marlin 1895 guide gun or the Dark Series Lever Action chambered in 45-70. I’ve heard there were problems with the 1895’s when Remington bought Marlin but I’ve since heard these problems have been fixed. Does anyone have any experience with these or a different recommendation for a bear defense gun?

Thanks


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[swehrman]

IMO, I'd prefer to stick with a handgun. There's just less of a chance that you'll be without it because you can wear it on your person pretty much at all times. That being said, I've heard good things about the newer Marlins with respect to quality. You can always try and find a used guide gun too.

-- Scott

 

[LeftOverChicken]

Not allowed handguns up here in Canada eh!!! Wish we were though.


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[swehrman]

In your situation then an 1895 guide gun is not a bad choice. Two upgrades to the 1895 I would suggest is the Ranger Point Precision large loop lever, and a set of Skinner sights.

-- Scott

 

[Dirt Wagon]

Why not pick up a Henry All Weather? Has a hard chrome finish from the factory. New, built in the USA & not by Remington.

Henry 45-70 All Weather.

I own a stainless Marlin JM 1895 in 45-70 but if I had to buy one again it'll be a Henry All Weather.

 

[rayporter]

yep the 1895 gets a bad rap because when the remlin first came out they had problems. i have a 2 year old 1895 in 45-70 and am in close contact with folks that one 2 others. we love ours. accurate and reliable. my take is you cant go wrong with one.

 

[robtattoo]

Stick with the 12ga.
The marlin will only give you more range, with less 'whomp' than a 1oz slug.
You're lucky being able to carry a short battered shotgun. Lighter & handier than a 9lb .45-70.
At 'smell the breath' distance, I'd rather have a 12 loaded alternately with buck & slugs (00 buck first...) than just about anything.

 

[eoperator]

I am toying with the idea of a 16" or 18" barrel ultralite 308win such as a barrett fieldcraft or build similar to that. topped with a 1-4 trijicon accupoint filled with a heavy x bullet or partition. I would have so much more confidence with that than a handgun or shotgun.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

If you are going to run a shotgun, use Brenneke slugs. Regular hunting slugs do not offer enough penetration.

Another option is a centerfire bolt-action rifle. More velocity and energy on target; just harder to get more rounds off.

 

[Brendan]

Kimber Adirondack in 308 starts pretty light and has an 18" barrel:

 

[FLAK]

I think you're better off with the shotgun.

 

[eoperator]

I've seen many whitetail shot with shotgun slugs, never been impressed with how fast they died. ymmv

 

[rayporter]

as far as whitetails go i have killed 5 per year for ages with a 12g and my take it there is no better hammer for a deer. end to end penetration is common. damage is significant on any angle.

i recently switched to a 45-70 and feel it is also a devastating deer rifle. the very first shot at deer i killed 2 with one shot with full penetration on them. but i am shooting less than full power loads and much lighter wt bullets. a 300 gr bullet is less than .7 oz. and a 250 gr is a little more than half an oz.

for bear problems i would carry 400 gr bullets which are over .9 oz. or 450 gr bullets which are more than an ounce. certainly a rifle shooting more than an ounce of lead would be sufficient.

 

[Dirt Wagon]

I previously mentioned the Henry 45-70, but since the only intended use is really just for a bear attack I'd go with the Mossberg 12ga.

You won't need the range of the 45-70 & the pump is a much smoother cycling action in a stressful situation. Plus with the cost of any 45-70 lever action I wouldn't want to drag it around too much in the woods scouting/fishing/hiking. It would get so beat up that I'd rather have the cheaper gun get knocked around & possibly dropped into the water than something I'd be worried about scratching up. The shot gun can be spray painted or replaced pretty easily/cheaply.

I purchased a Mossberg 500 Turkey with the fiber optic sights in mossyoak camo for potential close encounters/hunting. I got it cheap so it's get's tossed around or stood up in the corner rather the safe.

Look into DDupleks Stellhed Monolit slugs, solid steel flat slugs to slam hard & drive deep into a charging bear.

DDupeks 1 1/8 oz

DDupleks 1 oz

Spray paint the gun blaze orange & load it with DDupleks. The orange will help keep it in sight if you get caught off guard after setting it down.

 

[Kevin Dill]

To each his own. This .45-70 vs 12 gauge thing is akin to choosing handguns for bear defense. Choose something with definitely enough power....be sure you like the weapon and shoot it well....then bring it. I'd be comfortable with either gun for defense on bears, BUT I have personally experienced some short-stroking of a pump shotgun when the excitement level is high. I've had more than one jam, and that'll get you worried when thinking about bears running in.

My favorite is the 1895G in .45-70 equipped with a ghost ring by Skinner or XS. With the barrel bobbed to about 16" and a straight grip stock, this gun jumps up fast. Porting helps control the muzzle and a Pachmayr Decelerator will negate the sting. If forced into a needing a backup hunting weapon, the .45-70 with peep offers much better trajectory and downrange performance vs a shotgun slug.

But that said, I can't fault a used 12 gauge with a legally short barrel for straight up defense. I would probably go with a semi-auto for the reduced recoil and (in my case) reliable ejection.

 

[LeftOverChicken]

Thanks for the feedback everyone


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[sljensen]

Understand your interest in a firearm but pretty sure the research shows your better off with pepper spray.

 

[Kevin Dill]

Understand your interest in a firearm but pretty sure the research shows your better off with pepper spray.

1. It's not an either-or decision. A person can easily have both and make a decision on which to deploy if threatened. I carry both.

2. I can quickly think of 2 people who were recently killed after the attacking bear was peppered....hard. I'm pretty sure they would've fared better statistically with a firearm.

3. Statistics are simply data, and all data needs interpretation. The same data can be interpreted differently according to the potential bias' of anyone who reviews it.

 

[Brendan]

Understand your interest in a firearm but pretty sure the research shows your better off with pepper spray.

There have been plenty of discussions about exactly this on this site, and it's definitely not that black and white.

 

[Desk Jockey]

1. It's not an either-or decision. A person can easily have both and make a decision on which to deploy if threatened. I carry both.

2. I can quickly think of 2 people who were recently killed after the attacking bear was peppered....hard. I'm pretty sure they would've fared better statistically with a firearm.

3. Statistics are simply data, and all data needs interpretation. The same data can be interpreted differently according to the potential bias' of anyone who reviews it.

I always wonder who is compiling data and who is funding the study. Just speculating but it seems the pepper spray makers might be a little more focused on the outcome than the gun makers.

I also wonder if people are more likely to report a pepper spray usage than a gun usage that does not result in significant injury to the humans or injury or death to the bear. For example, is a hiker that sprays a bear with pepper spray more likely to report a bear encounter than someone that who fires a few warning shots and a bear runs off.

Thinking about a couple of episodes of the meateater like the famous “smell us now lady” where the same bear charged Steve, Cal and Cal’s Stache who fired a few shots and then Janis, who I think sprayed the bear. Did they report that as a gun encounter or spray or both or not at all. There was another episode where they drive a bear off there camp by shooting in the air. Did they report that?

How many people shoot a bear - wounding or killing it - and then never report it because they don’t want the hassle?

It makes me think that maybe firearms usage might be underreported relative to spray.