BE Spartan weight system

[DEW0341]

Does anyone know if the GT FACT wrench will work with the new Spartan shafts and their weight system? I can't imagine why they would come out with such a system and not have a tool for it.


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[Trial153]

Pretty sure the tool is the same, the only difference is the size of the diameter of the screw

 

[weedwacker42]

It does NOT work. I had to have a tool machined. The allen head is too large for the Spartan inserts. It was a huge fiasco. And the weights won't pass through the nock bushing either. I ended up making the tool. Ordering an extra set of nock bushings and when I cut my arrows, I cut the bushings off. BE wouldn't sell me arrows without the bushings already glued in. The other option, if you know what weight you want up front, is to screw them into the inserts and then glue the whole thing in. But I felt like that defeated the purpose as I was working up arrows. Feel free to PM me with any questions. I had a thread on this a few months ago.

 

[Trial153]

That sucks. They dropped the ball with that one.

 

[DEW0341]

It does NOT work. I had to have a tool machined. The allen head is too large for the Spartan inserts. It was a huge fiasco. And the weights won't pass through the nock bushing either. I ended up making the tool. Ordering an extra set of nock bushings and when I cut my arrows, I cut the bushings off. BE wouldn't sell me arrows without the bushings already glued in. The other option, if you know what weight you want up front, is to screw them into the inserts and then glue the whole thing in. But I felt like that defeated the purpose as I was working up arrows. Feel free to PM me with any questions. I had a thread on this a few months ago.

Did you order just shafts??? I was gonna possibly get some of these shafts but I don't want the nock bushings pre glued. I like to cut my shafts from each end

 

[weedwacker42]

Did you order just shafts??? I was gonna possibly get some of these shafts but I don't want the nock bushings pre glued. I like to cut my shafts from each end

Yes. Long story, but I ordered shafts only...twice. The first dozen, once I felt so proud of myself for builiding the insert weight tool and glued in my point inserts, only to discover that the weights won't fit through the inner diameter of the nock bushing. Then the second time I actually called to request the shafts only, but without having the nock bushings pre-glued in. I was told "Sorry, they are all pre-glued and in the warehouse." That was the only response I could get. Asked if they could set some back and I was told no. I also inquired about a tool and they said they hoped to work on one. But that's pretty much a moot point if the weights won't pass through the nock bushings. My solution as mentioned above was to cut off the bushings, glue the inserts, and instead of gluing the bushings I press fit them through a piece of grocery bag like Tim Gillingham shows on the GT University videos. Then I could pop them back out and exchange the weights. Now that I have my arrow set with the weights I prefer, the next time I can just screw them on the point insert and glue them in, but I was trying to test out multiple weights when I first got these arrows.

And just as an aside, I tried all I could to knock those factory installed bushings out, but pretty much destroyed them or the arrow trying to remove. Solid glue job for sure!

 

[DEW0341]

WeedwAcker42, thanks for the Intel on that. I appreciate it. I'll still order the shafts. I contacted black eagle they said pretty much what you just confirmed. Hope to have a tool in the future said it would be a while and the nock bushings are pre installed. I usually cut my arrows from both ends, are the Spartans straight tolerances? No need to cut from both ends?


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[weedwacker42]

I got the .001 shafts. They were pretty much nuts on as far as straightness. I have a long draw and use a long arrow so I only cut from one end. Depending on your arrow length, you could still cut both ends. Just don't forget to order the extra bushings. I don't know how much weight you are looking to put on the front, but I have a dozen 75g I don't need if you want. As far as making a tool, I bought the X-tool off Lancaster Archery. Figured out which size Allen head actually fit inside the weights and then bought an extra Allen key that size. Took it to a machine shop here in town and they cut the head off the X-tool, drilled the shaft of the rod and then cut the proper Allen key down, inserted and welded. Works pretty slick. Tolerances are pretty tight though. To get the weight OUT, I unscrew it, then found a smaller piece of rod stock from Home Depot or somewhere and run it from the point insert pushing the weight out the back.

 

[DEW0341]

Thanks for all the information, it's greatly appreciated. I plan on running a 29" shaft, with the 30 grain weights up front and 125gr broad head, vane tec super spines all total should be about 480 grains... I hope they fly amazing!


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[Chucklehead]

I've been messing around with these for about a week now and I'll throw my .02...
1. Blue lock-tight whatever weight you decide to use
2. Low temp hot-melt is getting mixed results. (Just experimenting due to the "no tool yet") Haven't had an insert pull out on my 18-1 but last night I pulled one out on one of my yellow jacket bag targets. There is some kind of mono fishing type line in the yellow jacket target. It really wants to "grab" the taper of the insert for some reason. I'm noticing a big difference between this insert and a GT ballistic collar as far as arrow removal goes...
3. I tried using some Easton tracer X lighted nocks the other day. Very unsuccessful. The battery end of the nock rattles around in the shaft when it hits a target. Its also easy to destroy the wire that holds the battery when installing. My conclusion is Easton tracer X will fit. But won't work reliably. Probably going to try a set of nockturnals next or just give up on having lighted nocks all together...

 

[weedwacker42]

I also notice that they "stick" when pulling out of my Morrell Super Duper bag. My inserts are in with a G5 glue I think. I haven't lost any so far, but I am tending to shoot block targets instead of the bag now.

I think the nockturnal X nock is the one that fits pretty well. Threw one in at the archery shop to test fit, but I haven't shot them yet.

 

[weedwacker42]

I also notice that they "stick" when pulling out of my Morrell Super Duper bag. My inserts are in with a G5 glue I think. I haven't lost any so far, but I am tending to shoot block targets instead of the bag now.

I think the nockturnal X nock is the one that fits pretty well. Threw one in at the archery shop to test fit, but I haven't shot them yet.

UPDATE: Shot my bag tonight...mistake. One hung up and I lost the insert, point weight, and field tip in the middle of the bag. Maybe bad gluing job, maybe just bad luck and repeated pounding. Contacted BE about ordering singles or even a half dozen components for my one bum arrow. Nope. They'll only sell by the dozen. $15.99 for a dozen inserts, $13.99 for 12 30g point weights. Or, I rip open my Morrell that I just put a new replacement cover on.

 

[Jtelarkin08]

With regular inserts like the spartans have its way easier to just use hot melt and you can pull the insert in and out as much as you need

 

[weedwacker42]

Will hot melt give more bond than cyanoacrylates? BE says they do not recommend hot melt for these components. Not that it really matters if it sticks better. Only thing I've ever used hot melt for is plugs on my hockey sticks.

On another note for guys wondering about the nock bushing, with one of my old arrows I put a lighter flame on it for a few seconds and the nock bushing came right out with a little tug on some needle nose. If you're comfortable adding a little heat to the arrow you can save some money on buying new bushings AND be able to cut both ends.

 

[Jtelarkin08]

Will hot melt give more bond than cyanoacrylates? BE says they do not recommend hot melt for these components. Not that it really matters if it sticks better. Only thing I've ever used hot melt for is plugs on my hockey sticks.

On another note for guys wondering about the nock bushing, with one of my old arrows I put a lighter flame on it for a few seconds and the nock bushing came right out with a little tug on some needle nose. If you're comfortable adding a little heat to the arrow you can save some money on buying new bushings AND be able to cut both ends.

The only reason arrow companies don't recommend hot melt is because you can get carbon to hot and damage it. But if you know what your doing it works awesome for regular inserts

 

[DEW0341]

I plan on using hot melt. It hasn't failed me yet. I also would like to shoot half my arrows with no added weight and half with the 30gr insert weights added to see if their is any difference in the groupings. I only shoot into a HIPS block target or delta McKenzie 3d target and I haven't lost any inserts to date with hot melt.

I think every manufacture recommends to not use hot melt but its funny on GT university videos on youtube Tim says he uses hot melt and does in one of the videos, but last time I ordered some GT hunters the box said its not recommended to use hot melt for the inserts.... maybe its just a liability thing I dunno.

 

[Chucklehead]

Saw that video on GT site as well. I figure Tim knows his stuff as good as anyone so as long as I follow his instructions, I'll be good.
I just follow two rules with hot melt on carbon.
1. use the low melt temp sticks.
2. no direct flame or heat on the shaft.
And so far this has worked for me. I like the versatility that hot melt gives me. You can change weights, index broadheads etc.