Barrett owners, help!! POI shift.....

[mt100gr.]

DoubleBroom, with all due respect, making your 6th post on the forum be yet another condescending remark directed at a forum member that goes out of his way to help here, i kindly suggest you save it.

No intention to derail this thread further. I have been curious about the fieldcraft for awhile now but haven't gotten to serious with my research.

To the OP - have you let another person fire a couple strings from the rifle? This has been eye opening for me in the past. A self-fullfilling prophecy, if you will - I have developed an expectation for a rifles performance and when I shoot, it lives up to it. In the hands of another, it performs differently.

Merry Christmas!

 

[juan trueno]

With formalicious You can sharpshoot his presentation of you don’t like it and he can every once in while type himself in a circle like most humans-
But I too spent most of my adult life and all of my professional career with callous on my thumb from loading magazines and then shooting them- and he’s not lieing it’s actually true- if your rifle randomly flings one- whether it’s the 1st or the 5th- it’s either shooter indiced a bad barrel, bedding or machining job or if you keep shooong it’ll disappear in the “group”

It just is that way.

 

[Slamo]

I'd like to give an update. I decided to reach out to Barrett directly. They made a few suggestions and requested I shoot the rifle again (torque settings). In addition, they are going to have me send the rifle back to the factory to look at it. Before doing so, I made it clear that the gun will shoot their moa guarantee when cold. They replied saying they still want to see it. In addition, they provided the factory test target, which showed a .678 3 shot group with 185gr Lapua ammo.

I am pleased with their quick response and willingness to look at the rifle. Not sure what the outcome will be, but I'm sure happy with their service.

Wow!.. That so far is some great service!.. I'm looking at getting a Fieldcraft in 30.06.. Looking forward to your outcome!...

 

[juan trueno]

DoubleBroom, with all due respect, making your 6th post on the forum be yet another condescending remark directed at a forum member that goes out of his way to help here, i kindly suggest you save it.

No intention to derail this thread further. I have been curious about the fieldcraft for awhile now but haven't gotten to serious with my research.

To the OP - have you let another person fire a couple strings from the rifle? This has been eye opening for me in the past. A self-fullfilling prophecy, if you will - I have developed an expectation for a rifles performance and when I shoot, it lives up to it. In the hands of another, it performs differently.

Merry Christmas!

So... what are you saying- you aren’t lining up for a double Broomed mountain rifle? He’s not selling himself real well is he?

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

So let me get this straight. You have to peddle a bunch of BS in a number of posts before you have street cred on this site? If you believe a fourm has shot 70K rounds in 24 days you are blindly following someone who throws wild numbers and “facts” at you. But by all means if you want to believe his posts go for it. I’ve read previous posts by this fourm member and don’t agree with half of what he states.

Juan, I honestly don’t need anymore business. I have plenty of it and most are repeat customers.

I just wanted to put my two cents out there to the original poster; of the 6 factory Fieldcrafts and 2 Lilja rebarreled Fieldcrafts that I personally own that cold bore flyers are a perfectly normal occurrence and that his particular rifle might be tad excessive? A cold bore “flyer” is much different then a rifle randomly sending “flyers” downrange. Are you all telling me that those eight rifles have bad bedding jobs/barrels or have been faulty put together by either Barrett or myself? Or my shooting abilities at the bench somehow drastically change from the first cold round shot to the subsequent 3,5,10 or 20 rnd group?

I need to have a number of posts before I can relate my personal observations with rifles that I own? Let me know what that number is and I’ll keep my opinions to myself till then. The fourm member “Hodgmen” made a similar observation with his Fieldcraft and this “formulations” tells him he is false in his observations. I merely countered him and then he throws wild numbers, pics, figures etc. I pointed out that I simply don’t believe his numbers of rounds he’s claimed to have put downrange 24days (or he’s been “involved” with whatever that means) and broke it down by minutes on his figures. When you exaggerate one set of figures, it tends to follow suit with others in your arguments.

 

[luke moffat]

Haha relax man.....he never claimed he alone fired that many rounds yet you seem to enjoy clinging to this belief.

 

[Clarktar]

So let me get this straight. You have to peddle a bunch of BS in a number of posts before you have street cred on this site? If you believe a fourm has shot 70K rounds in 24 days you are blindly following someone who throws wild numbers and “facts” at you. But by all means if you want to believe his posts go for it. I’ve read previous posts by this fourm member and don’t agree with half of what he states.

Juan, I honestly don’t need anymore business. I have plenty of it and most are repeat customers.

I just wanted to put my two cents out there to the original poster; of the 6 factory Fieldcrafts and 2 Lilja rebarreled Fieldcrafts that I personally own that cold bore flyers are a perfectly normal occurrence and that his particular rifle might be tad excessive? A cold bore “flyer” is much different then a rifle randomly sending “flyers” downrange. Are you all telling me that those eight rifles have bad bedding jobs/barrels or have been faulty put together by either Barrett or myself? Or my shooting abilities at the bench somehow drastically change from the first cold round shot to the subsequent 3,5,10 or 20 rnd group?

I need to have a number of posts before I can relate my personal observations with rifles that I own? Let me know what that number is and I’ll keep my opinions to myself till then. The fourm member “Hodgmen” made a similar observation with his Fieldcraft and this “formulations” tells him he is false in his observations. I merely countered him and then he throws wild numbers, pics, figures etc. I pointed out that I simply don’t believe his numbers of rounds he’s claimed to have put downrange 24days (or he’s been “involved” with whatever that means) and broke it down by minutes on his figures. When you exaggerate one set of figures, it tends to follow suit with others in your arguments.

I'll get back to you on the number of posts. But I believe it might be a double digit number.

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[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Haha relax man.....he never claimed he alone fired that many rounds yet you seem to enjoy clinging to this belief.

Actually my last post states that I know he was not the only one involved in those so called tests or whatever he referred to them as. But its still a exaggerated claim that 70K rounds were fired by him or 5-6 others. Was he doing the vast amount or on the other spectrum just observation. Those differences make a big deal on someone’s credibility/experience there Luke.

Can I count all the rounds that I watch soliders shoot at Ft Wainwright on the KD courses during my normal range control duties on my 9-5 job as “experience”? Of course I can’t.

My entire point of my original posts was his observations were false. Hodgeman had similar results as I do with my Fieldcrafts. I’ve read his posts in the past, on other forums, he’s a local Alaskan and I know he has some credibility.

What makes this Form guy the end all know it it all on this fourm? Hodgeman and I’ve (and the original poster as well) all have had 100 percent similarity in our cold bore shooting with Fieldcrafts. Are we all just not at that level to know what we are talking about? I’ve been doing this for 27 years. Been building rifles for 20. Own 6 of these factory Barrett rifles and 2 rebarreled Fieldcrafts not to mention the 100 plus light contoured hunting rifles (both custom and factory rifles) I own.

 

[juan trueno]

You don’t have to agree with anyone and your welcome to present your side- you can call out who you like as far as I’m concerned- I am not one to argue really so I’ll leave this as my final words on the subject unless I come back to agree with any subsequent point you might make.

the bottom line and I’m not asking you to disregard any prior experience you might have- but your welcome to test mine, this is as close to universal as you can get- take it as axiomatic. if you, during the course of firing a group, experience a flyer, and continue to fire rounds into the same poa - either the group will expand to include what you had called a flier- or- it won’t which would indicate pilot error or a bad individual cartridge- or you will establish a new group- which indicates an issue with the barrel, the bedding, or the machine work the consistency of the ammo I’m not claiming anything outrageous about your experience or my own- and I’m not claiming anything outlandish or absurd about rifles.

 

[Formidilosus]

Actually my last post states that I know he was not the only one involved in those so called tests or whatever he referred to them as. But its still a exaggerated claim that 70K rounds were fired by him or 5-6 others. Was he doing the vast amount or on the other spectrum just observation. Those differences make a big deal on someone’s credibility/experience there Luke.

Can I count all the rounds that I watch soliders shoot at Ft Wainwright on the KD courses during my normal range control duties on my 9-5 job as “experience”? Of course I can’t.

My entire point of my original posts was his observations were false. Hodgeman had similar results as I do with my Fieldcrafts. I’ve read his posts in the past, on other forums, he’s a local Alaskan and I know he has some credibility.

What makes this Form guy the end all know it it all on this fourm? Hodgeman and I’ve (and the original poster as well) all have had 100 percent similarity in our cold bore shooting with Fieldcrafts. Are we all just not at that level to know what we are talking about? I’ve been doing this for 27 years. Been building rifles for 20. Own 6 of these factory Barrett rifles and 2 rebarreled Fieldcrafts not to mention the 100 plus light contoured hunting rifles (both custom and factory rifles) I own.

So we’ve went right past doubling down, and all the way to dropping anchor.... cool.


Since you can’t comprehend, and you can’t tell me which round is the first in those groups (or any), and you believe there is something magical that happens with the first round that doesn’t happen with the second- which brings me to a question: how cold does it need to be for a “cold bore” deviation? I mean if you get a cold bore shift at 90 degrees, do you also get one at 10 degrees? The steel temperature is wildly different at those degrees, so do you only get a “kinda” cold bore shift?

Anyways, and you want to jump right to “liar”... grin.


Something tells me I’ve been on military ranges, but it ain’t the same as your version.... Maybe a person shooting less than a thousand rounds a day is “a lot” where you come from, but it’s is called a “Tuesday”.


This is ammo for me and 5 of my buddies for like a week-







This was around ten ten days worth (IIRC) of shooting for same.







Now I’m sure you shoot more than I, but I do ok.










Though I have to beg for range time and gear....










You keep telling the people that buy your rifles “it’s normal for the first round to miss”.... I’m sure it “works” for you.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

So now the hero pics come out. And you want to tell us all about what you know etc. And how much shooting you do. My buddies at Bragg and Dam Neck would never in a million years be posting stuff to an open fourm like this. You are straight lying.

Does it take me to go down to my unit and post wild hero pics to back up my arguments? Is that what it takes for credibility on this site? For you internet file pics are your choice of proof.

I don’t believe a word you are peddling. It’s not tough getting file photo pics BTW. So tell me what branch of service you are involved with “testing” Howa and Tikka rifles which was part of your last photo spread of test targets to me trying to disprove my statements?

But to answer your question, I simply don’t believe you! You could send and post any target pic you want to “prove” your false statements. If i am not there to witness this and I question your credibility I can’t “pick” out the cold bore shot you claim is in there.

Keep up with the hero pics though, it’s very entertaining that you would go through this much to tell me how much I don’t know.

 

[Formidilosus]

Grin.


Ok.

 

[CGW_6_actual]

Grin.


Ok.

I remember those days, fun times! I'm guessing Army and not Navy?

 

[mtnwrunner]

So now the hero pics come out. And you want to tell us all about what you know etc. And how much shooting you do. My buddies at Bragg and Dam Neck would never in a million years be posting stuff to an open fourm like this. You are straight lying.

Does it take me to go down to my unit and post wild hero pics to back up my arguments? Is that what it takes for credibility on this site? For you internet file pics are your choice of proof.

I don’t believe a word you are peddling. It’s not tough getting file photo pics BTW. So tell me what branch of service you are involved with “testing” Howa and Tikka rifles which was part of your last photo spread of test targets to me trying to disprove my statements?

But to answer your question, I simply don’t believe you! You could send and post any target pic you want to “prove” your false statements. If i am not there to witness this and I question your credibility I can’t “pick” out the cold bore shot you claim is in there.

Keep up with the hero pics though, it’s very entertaining that you would go through this much to tell me how much I don’t know.

Dude! It's okay to disagree with someone on Rokslide but man, your posts are pointless. I can assure you that Form is the "real deal" and knows what he is doing. Not that me reassuring you means anything nor do I care but attacking a well respected and PROVEN member here is not what the slide is about. Go shoot a couple of 10 shot groups......enlighten your thinking.

Randy

 

[Cahunter805]

Soooo are cold bore shots supposed to impact in the same POI as other shots or not?

 

[mt100gr.]

So... what are you saying- you aren’t lining up for a double Broomed mountain rifle? He’s not selling himself real well is he?

Actually, the first thing I did was go back and look for a link in his signature. Then I googled "double broomed mountain rifles". I am always interested in custom builds and lightweight renditions of "ideal".
I couldn't find any further info, but I was pinched for time with family commitments so i didn't dig to deep. ...despite his less than gentlemanly soapbox introduction here on rokslide.

Personally, i struggled with a lot of Form's early contributions because a lot of it is very contrary to the "hunters" mindset and traditional practices when it comes to equipment, accuracy, and range time. I had also never delved much into evaluating repeatability and consistency of optics. That has been expensive and eye opening.

Then I looked back through stacks of load development targets for numerous rifles and I started seeing these facts, literally on paper. As I continued down the path I changed my expectations and techniques for many facets of my range time. I had a brief private conversation on here with Formidilosus and have come to very much appreciate his input. If guys like me (and DBMR ) didn't go into things with our minds already made up, we'd save a lot of ammo, money, and time.

I was really hoping someone would simply point out that those "shifts" in POI were within that rifles capability. Like you said, Juan, "keep shooting, and they'll disappear into the group."

Either way, at this point, doublebroomed isn't going to reassess his position. Probably won't sell many rifles to roksliders, either. Form will hopefully continue to contribute and maybe a few more guys will look at their targets a little dfferently.

It's a long shot, but I think it would be cool for someone to review a Double Broomed Mountain Rifle. He sends a rifle, Form writes the parameters and it shot head to head, round for round with a preselected "guaranteed" rifle like a T3x or Howa 1500 by Luke.

To the OP, I apologize again for derailing this. Please keep us posted on your progress with your rifle.

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

Less than gentleman introduction?? What does that even mean. I said that one of this forums hero’s I guess was wrong after he said it to another fourm member first. Am I missing something here? I was just backing up what Hodgeman started. Is he also wrong for doubting this “forms” opinion? I pointed out I didn’t believe he shot or was involved with others shooting 70K rounds of ammo in 24 days.

I’ve sold four different rifles to RokSlide members BTW. Both are repeat customers.

I have zero interest in doing any kind of head to head testing of my rifles with any other fourm member. I certainly have enough business and happy with my word of mouth advertising from happy customers. My main clients are for the most part hardcore Alaskan sheep hunters with many years of experience in the mtns. I combined what truly works for Mtn rifles and a scientific based practical side of rifle precision. Staying away from the gimmicks and fads that are so referred to throughout this fourm. When customers bring me this nonsense it is quickly put to rest with what is practical and realistic and what truly works for mountain rifles. Not what is going to put money into a rifle builders pockets.

 

[gbflyer]

I would call that vertical stringing. Some may not agree. Here is a link from a feller that’s been at it awhile.

CURES for VERTICAL STRINGING

 

[DoubleBroomedMountainRifles]

I’m pretty sure making personal attacks on fourm members would be considered “not gentlemanly” as well there bsn

 

[bsnedeker]

I’m pretty sure making personal attacks on fourm members would be considered “not gentlemanly” as well there bsn

Says the guy calling a senior member of this board a liar repeatedly? Lol!

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